4 common myths about healing from sex addiction and betrayal

Intro

0:04Four common myths about healing from betrayal and sex addiction.

0:10Brandon, what’s going on, man? Not much. It feels like it’s been forever since we

0:15chatted, you know. Yeah. I mean, you you picked the exact right week to take off.

0:20I know. My goodness. The world went to hell in a hand basket while I was gone. It see it seemed that way.

0:27Golly. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, it was rough and we had some some personal

0:34family stuff go on. I mean, it was it was an interesting time to be disconnected from the world and uh I was

0:42trying to stay disconnected, but every once in a while I checked my phone and it’s like the next thing happened, you know? It’s it was a week, man. It was a

0:50a real week a real week of like big big like loss. I

0:56mean, for for me personally, for you know, our our basically for our country, but I mean, there were I think three

1:03this week, there were in addition to all of this stuff all over the news, there were three people that I know that lost

1:11their lives this week. Yeah. And um man, like I I feel like my soul

1:17is like over inundated with even the ability to like process or grieve, you know?

1:23Yeah. like I’ I’ve felt kind of numb and I’m waiting for it to hit me a little bit. So,

1:29um and and to hear you had even more like we need to talk about that, Tyler. Yeah.

1:34So, I’m I’m curious, but we can talk about that later. Um yeah, so uh you know, where do we find

1:42hope? How do we you know, one thing about this kind of silver lining to it all, I think, is it’s definitely made me

1:50stop. Um, really quick story. I I ran a group um before I went out of town and

1:58on that group had a had a client who who had lost someone in his family. And um

2:07he was extremely just powerful and um amazing in that group. And I was

2:14driving home from from the group and just started thinking about my own kids

Control vs. Trust

2:19and my own, you know, and I got home. By the time I got home, I was just like sobbing. I walk in my door and my kids

2:26are like, “What is going on?” They and they all came over and just like hugged me alto together. And you know, it just

2:32like it it it one thing it does is it makes you realize how important every day is

2:39that we have. um and and to stop and just just get

2:44present and take stock with that because um I think we take it for granted. We

2:50just kind of bump along here and there and every all these tragedies that have happened like make you think like whoa

2:57like life is precious, you know. Amen. Brandon, I had this uh I kind of

3:03have this goal in my life. I don’t think I’ve ever shared this with you, but I have this goal in my life that you know,

3:10you you ask the question all the time. You get asked, you think the question, and in times like this, you really think this question is like,

3:17what would I want to do before I die? Or what would I want to what would be like if this was my last day, what would it

3:22look like? And I personally want to live a life that on most days, if I get to

3:29the end of my day, I’d be something like today would be an okay day. Uhhuh. Um, and the only and the only way

3:35you get to that is I think at least as this has been my experience as I’ve been wrestling with this is to try to

3:42practice being present and living the life that’s directly in front of you, whatever it brings. And and there is the

3:48possibility of being able to go to bed every night on a clear conscience going, “Yeah, today was enough.”

3:55Yeah. You know, yeah. Um, yeah, absolutely. So anyway, I know we’re we’re way off of where we we’re

4:01actually going on the episode today, but uh you know, I Tyler, there’s this kind of

4:08stick here and then we’ll shift. Um I have all these windows in this office that I’m in and you and I used to mow

4:15lawns every week and there’s all these like uh like little business buildings

4:20and they all have little lawns and so in my mind I’m like bidding them out like well, you know, I’d probably charge that

4:26for that or that for that. And you know how much could this complex bring in if you got most of these accounts?

4:31If you just mowed the lawn every week. Yeah. And every Wednesday morning this crew comes and it reminds me of of us.

4:39Like they are they are the us crew. They’re just, you know, they’re kind of a beat up rag tag crew of like college

4:45kids, you know, and every Wednesday morning and when they show up it’s like

4:51holy crap. Like another week went by. What? Wow. another week. Like they’re there

4:58again. Like what? And I just kind of watch time just go by by the weeks and it’s like holy cow. Just like boom,

5:04another week. Boom. You know, there’s the mo crew again. Yeah, there’s the mo crew. They’re back every Wednesday morning. Um so yeah,

5:12time we only have so much of it. It goes by really quick. And uh it just what you

5:19said, focus on each day and look back and just be like that was an okay day. That was good. Yeah.

5:24So all right. Um, let’s shift. Let’s go. Brandon, we got we got an important topic today.

5:30Yeah. We’re going to talk a little bit about myths, common myths about the process of healing from both sides

5:36inside of a partnership after there’s been betrayal or with sex addiction. That these myths happen because um

5:44emotion takes over and knee-jerk reaction will happen and we just

5:51unconsciously start to do. you just unconsciously start to react to a highly

5:57emotional, intense, difficult situation. And the reason why we want to talk,

6:04Tyler, why do we want to talk about these? Because we we’re in the business of trying to help people find healing. And

6:10the myths we’re going to talk about are things that demand a lot of emotional energy, some sometimes time, and they

6:17don’t often yield much of in the way of actually the healing inside of the relationship or personally.

6:23Yeah. But before before we really dive into these, chances are you’ve fallen into

6:30most of these. Um, and we’re not saying you’re bad. We’re saying that’s normal.

6:36Um, saying it’s normal. and consider that maybe what what all of these things feel

6:41like they promise some kind of reward, but they don’t actually often very often produce much of a reward.

6:48Yeah. So, it it’s hard to hear because if you’re doing these things, it’s like it’s like, well, don’t tell me that I

6:54shouldn’t or, you know, like I’m and but but what Tyler’s saying is absolutely

6:59true. We want you to get better and we know we’ve we’ve been around the block long enough that we know that these

7:04things don’t work. In fact, they actually they actually cause harm. They actually

7:11continue the suffering. And so that’s why we’re going to talk about them today. Um, and hopefully as you listen,

7:19you can look at your own recovery and what you’re doing in your own work and say, “Yeah, like that’s something that I

7:24definitely do or struggle with and I need to reconsider this because this is

7:30not helpful.” So, yeah. Tyler, do you want to start? Yeah, let’s go back and forth. So, we’ll

7:35do we’re going to do two from each side of it. If you’re two myths that the unfaithful believe and two myths that

Fear or Intuition

7:42the betrayed often believe or follow through on that don’t yield great results. And we’ll just kind of stagger

7:48and alternate. Does that sound all right? That sounds perfect. All right. Um I’ll start if that’s all right. This

7:56one is a myth that comes from the b bet the trade side of the equation and immediately after finding out this

8:03it kind of blows open the secrets out now things are starting to kind of un unfurl you know all the new information

8:09is coming out there’s a common myth that many people get trapped in that as a

8:16betrayed partner I need to become the primary accountability partner for my

8:22spouse. Yeah. Yeah. It’s it’s fascinating, Tyler, like

8:28when uh betrayal happens or discovery happens,

8:34um that the the person who betrayed often times wants their partner to to to

8:44like think that they’re okay. And one one way that they do that is they wrap them into their recovery. They like,

8:50″Here, you’re my sponsor. you’re the one that tells me I’m okay or not okay. And

8:55the betrayed partner will take the bait. And it seems like it’s done from a place

9:03of support. And and often times it is. There’s there’s some of that going on,

9:09but it’s also done from a place of control of if I am the person who you’re

9:15accountable to, then I know more, I get to manage more, I get to see more. So,

9:22I’ll make sure I I’ll I’ll schedule your therapy appointments for you. I’ll check

9:27in with you every day. I will make sure that you’re doing your dailies. I will

9:32do all this stuff because I’m being supportive, but in reality, it’s you’re in the fear

9:38cycle with that. of the problem with that, you know, and it’s a natural thing because you’re

9:44like, man, I I just don’t want to get hurt again and I want to make sure we can solve this and I want to I want to be part of the solution to helping to

9:50solve it. The problem is is that if I’m responsible for having to hold all of

9:56that all of the time and I’m already in my own trauma from having received the betrayal, that puts me in a really rough

10:02spot to manage my own emotions because now I’ve got to somehow show up and be strong for my partner even though I need

10:09to attend to my own feelings of betrayal. That’s one part of it. The second part of it is this, and at the heart of most people’s concerns if

10:16they’ve been betrayed is, can we rebuild trust and can we salvage this? and and

10:22you’re actually oftentimes shooting yourself in your in the foot when it comes to rebuilding trust. If you’re the

10:28one that’s always following through on making sure everything gets taken care of, everything’s done, then you don’t really know for sure that the healing

10:35that your partner needs to go through and that they need to do is is coming from a place of genuiness. And you can’t

10:42trust that they’re choosing to do those things because in a lot of ways, you’re doing everything for them. Would you

10:48rather trust your ability to manage that their recovery and manage them or trust

10:55them? Because the one actually gets in the way of the other. That’s right. Right. And

11:03and and but it’s less vulnerable. It’s less scary to manage the whole thing. Yeah. Well, I can manage it. I’m I’m in

11:10charge. You’re accountable to me. It’s less vulnerable because you feel like you’re more in

11:15control. But that exactly what Tyler just said, that gets in the way. You can never know

11:23whether that other person is trustworthy unless they’re proactive in their own recovery and unless they’re doing those

11:30things without you present. That’s right. You know, you don’t you don’t want to

11:35get to a place where every time you’re not around, you wonder what the heck is going on.

11:40Yeah. You wanna you want to be in a relationship with somebody who chooses to do the right thing even when nobody’s

11:46looking, right? And if and if you’re now all of a sudden always looking,

11:52then you there’s that piece of you that’s doing it to try to feel safe and there’s a piece of you that doesn’t want

11:57to get hurt again, which makes total sense, but but it’s going to erode the ability to actually trust that the work

12:02is genuine. Tyler, I’ve gotten some push back a little bit where, you know, I’ll

12:09I’ll I’ll be running, you know, betrayed partner groups and I’ll say things like,

12:14″Hey, set some some boundaries for yourself about how much you’re checking

12:20his phone, how much you’re checking in on him, how much you’re tracking him,

12:25following him, reminding him of therapy appointments, all of these things. Like, set some boundaries with yourself.” And

Helicoptering

12:31the push back that I get is Brandon, if I didn’t like investigate and make sure,

12:40then I would have never caught him and I would have never found out. So, you’re telling me to stop doing this

12:46behavior and you’re kind of reinforcing this idea of keeping my head in the sand and just

12:53not being aware at all. And and and here’s the truth of it, Tyler. This is

12:59this is kind of a a a difficult concept to understand. I actually believe that there’s an intuition and a gut feel

13:06sometimes where partners go discover things like absolutely I looked up the internet history and I

13:12found a bunch of stuff. Absolutely. Good for you for following that gut prompting and that intuition. That’s awesome.

13:19Um, but in long-term recovery, as you go start to to engage in the recovery

13:25process, um, that’s not that’s not like a a gut

13:31feel anymore if you’re caught up in that fear cycle and you’re managing their recovery. Um, and the fact of the matter

13:39is is you look more for um the energy, the feeling you get from

13:45them than than it is about the exact things that they’re doing. Um, I don’t

13:51know if I’m explaining this very well, Tyler. No. Yeah, exactly. It’s basically the the question is and what we’re not

13:57saying is don’t check up like if you have that gut feel but there’s an energy

14:02difference in that like and you you’ll feel it Brandon when you’re in the office and people who are listening will understand this too because they

14:08probably experienced these things differently but if if I’m doing what I’m doing out of fear and compulsion that’s

14:15different than doing what I’m doing because something kind of hit me in a grounded way.

14:21Yeah. Right. And and there’s a different energy in that. There’s like a knowledge and a groundedness versus a fear and a

14:27compulsion. And living out of fear and compulsion in the long run. It’s it’s a

14:32it’s a normal thing when there’s crisis going on, but in the long run, that’s not a sustainable energy and it’s not

14:37going to produce great fruit most of the time. Yeah. I think of like think of like a hover

14:43parent, a helicopter parent, right? like the the I I was I was watching something

14:49about this and the what the the child feels from that is

14:55you don’t believe in me. You don’t believe that I’m capable. Um and what

15:00the parent is doing is saying no, I love them. So I’m going to make sure they’re okay. So I’m going to watch everything they do. someone, you know, and and the

15:07fact of the matter is is it’s good for the parent and good for the child to have that autonomy in as a human. Um

15:15that’s good for their relationship where the child can fail, can get hurt, um ca,

15:20you know, but the parent is there to support and see them and love them, but there’s that there’s that autonomy going

15:27on. It’s the same thing with this concept. Um

15:32so, should we move on to the next one, Tyler? Yeah, you’re up. This this one actually it goes right

15:38handinhand with with what we’re talking about. What side is this one on? Is this on the unfaithful? This is the betrayer side, the

15:44unfaithful side. And um and and actually the betrayed

15:49actually falls into this myth as well. Like so so I guess it’s both. Um, but

15:56the knee-jerk reaction is that that this thing that’s happening is about the

16:04relationship. It’s a relationship issue. Um,

16:10the truth is is the relationship is very much affected by what is going on which

16:18makes it a relationship issue. Right? But when the the focus for the healing

16:25is on the relationship, then you’re shooting at the wrong target for actual healing, for actual recovery.

16:33Um, and it it’s like, well, if we can get to a place where the couple feels

16:39good together, then everything’s okay. That is fleeting and will never happen

16:46if that’s the only thing that you’re working toward because that’s not why you got in this situation in the first

16:53place. That’s right. And and if you’re looking at it from from being the unfaithful’s perspective using this kind

17:00of thing is there is some pain oftentimes saying hey things were broken in our relationship and there was some

Not Just Relationship

17:07disconnection and that’s why I ended up choosing to do XYZ whatever right but now that’s a justification for the poor

17:14behavior rather than an acknowledgement that there were things wrong and I still have to take a look at the fact that I

17:19chose to do that behavior and that’s something inside of me that needs to needs to be addressed.

17:25Yeah. Right. Um, and a lot of times it feels like blame on the partner, you know, and and the thing about it is this, and I

17:31work with couples all the time. You do too, Brandon. I I had one last week just beating their head against the wall

17:37because he’s the one that’s done the betraying, and he’s coming in and saying, “But can’t you see that my needs d and

17:45that’s why I had to go and look at porn, or that’s why I had to go and do that, and that’s why it’s like, and I’m sitting there,

17:50I’ve never had that session before. I’m sitting over there watching the partner just like go. All he’s really saying is,

17:56″I want to be connected. I want to have a deeper relationship. I want to this and that.” And the more that he keeps

18:01saying those things, the more she just continues to tighten, tighten, tighten, tighten, withdraw, withdraw, withdraw, and then finally she’s coming out with

18:06like her own anger, her own frustration, and then the disconnection gets even further. Whereas, if he were to come in

18:12and be like, “Hey, look, like I have some real issues with my anxiety

18:18in the relationship. I have real issues with boundaries in the relationship. I have real issues with being authentic in the relationship. I have real issues

18:24with honesty. I have real issues with trust and I have my biggest issue is shame. I don’t know how to manage my

18:31shame and it’s nobody’s issue but mine and I need and I haven’t dealt with my trauma and I

18:36need to go work and I need to go to work on that and that is the pathway forward. But instead that include that that requires honesty

18:44that requires a big amount of accountability and it requires vulnerability. Um

18:49and uh and so it’s easier just to say, “Hey, we got a marriage problem.” That honesty, vulnerability, and all the

18:55things you just listed, Tyler, that that is is about the the individual and

19:02requires and is about self-determination um to heal on your own. And this is the

19:09catch 22 is like when it’s about the relationship

19:14then a lot of times the betrayer is like well what can I do to make sure that they’re happy or okay or whatever and

19:22the truth is is if you’re working your actual recovery then you’re going to learn how to be more honest and more

19:27vulnerable and that might be hard. Um, Tyler, it’s so obvious. This is

19:33like, how many times have you heard this where it’s like, you know, somebody starts to develop a

19:39sex addiction and they’re 12, 13 years old and it escalates and it’s compulsive

19:46and it’s just happening, right? They they’ve never ever met their their

19:53spouse yet for years. And this compulsive behavior is happening.

19:58They’re numbing their emotions with it. They’re building up their shame. They’re

20:04destroying their self-worth. They’re living in secrecy more. And then along comes like this, you know, person they

20:11fall in love with. And they think, and what do they think often times?

20:16They think, “Oh, well, now my problems are all solved because I found the person who can take care of everything.”

20:22So, so think how crazy this is. like years of developed behaviors, years and

20:28years of it. Not just the acting out, but the secrecy, the hiding, all the shame, the attachment issues, the everything that

20:35that is there. Years and years of it. Then it’s like, oh, a pretty face. Like, yay, we got married. Life is better now.

20:43Sorry, that’s not how it works. And then and then what happens in the marriage?

20:49They they they think, well, the problem didn’t go away. But but the person was

20:54supposed to be the solution. And and when it’s not, then they keep going back to the same

20:59well going, “But yeah, but yeah, but this relationship’s supposed to be fixed and be better and like and feeling worse

21:04about themsel because that now now they really shouldn’t be acting out in these

21:10ways and they are.” And so now they feel worse about themsel. Secrecy goes even further and then D-Day happens and they

21:18go into a therapist’s office. They come to my office or your office and they’re like

21:24fix this relationship the like like what do we do to fix us?

21:32And it’s like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Where was the seed planted, right? What is what is the actual issue?

21:39And I get it. Like to fix the relationship, you have to fix the individual parts in the relationship.

21:46The ingredients have to be there so that the relationship can flourish.

21:52It’s when yeah, when the focus is on the relationship, then you don’t deal with, you know, working on that recovery. the

21:59principles that it requires to do the work on the individual level actually

22:04are some of the same principles in most cases that do the healing in the relationship.

22:09Yes. Because when I when I’m a partner and I’m watching my other partner go into the depths of their problems and take

22:16ownership and practice accountability and practice humility and build a team for account for accountability with

Placating vs. Authenticity

22:21other people and go into their trauma and start become becoming shame resilient.

22:27That’s the kind of person I want to be married to. Healthy attachment is a byproduct of real recovery.

22:33Yeah. Healthy relationships is a byproduct of actual individual recovery.

22:40Exactly. It’s it’s an invitation to create a new kind of relationship rather than go back and try to hammer out out

22:47of the old relationship some kind of fix. And this goes both ways, Tyler, where it’s easier to hide behind the

22:54frustration of the relationship than it is to do the hard work of real deep

23:00recovery. Um, so if you can focus there, you can focus on how bad they just like your example like, well, she doesn’t

23:08give me enough sex or she doesn’t like, okay, focus there so that you don’t have to actually stop and look in

23:14the mirror and do your freaking work. Um, that’s that’s what’s going on there.

23:20That’s the pathway to freedom is your work and be get accountable. Stop playing the victim in the relationship. Focus on

23:26your individual healing so that you can create healthy relationships. Yeah. That’s And by the way, Brian, what

23:33you said is that’s the empowering way to do it. Yes. Yeah. But the myth is we got to fix our

23:40relationship. And and you do, but I guess what’s the myth in that, Tyler? The myth is that the base level problem

23:48is the issues in the relationship. The the truth in that is is that there is a pain point in the relationship. And

23:54so that’s why it makes sense why people come in and say, “Hey, we got a problem.” How many times has the problem been we need to learn how to communicate

24:01better? And it’s like, well, yeah, that is a problem, but that isn’t the problem right now. Like there’s there’s a reason

24:07why they communicate. You guys communicate just fine. It breaks down because there’s a lack of boundaries and

24:14shame, resiliency, and all those other things. The relationship issues are the symptom.

24:19Yeah. And and not the actual in many many cases. Yes. That’s it. So,

24:24yes, there’s a pain point there. But that’s but pursuing that is like pursuing the visible part of the iceberg

24:29when there’s a whole bunch of stuff underneath the surface that is really Oh, I love I love the iceberg analogy.

24:34We we always get back to that. Somehow somehow the iceberg always makes it way into place. It’s a good one. Do you have

24:40a poem about an iceberg? No, but I should probably go find one now.

24:46You should write one. I challenge you. Write the iceberg poem. Write the iceberg poem. Shared at rising

24:52sun just so you can laugh at me. I would love it.

24:58Yeah, you I know you would. I know you would love it. I might write one or I might What the thing is if I write it and I

25:04get up there in front of all the guys at Rising Sun and then I share my like iceberg poem, I want to make sure you’re

25:10facing me and not behind me like mocking me the whole time. I challenge you to write the iceberg

25:15poem without using AI.

25:20That’s my challenge to Nobody does anything without AI these days. He won’t commit. He won’t commit.

25:30Um, okay. Okay. All right. Um, I’ll let’s let’s go

25:35in reverse now. So, I’ll use my I’ll do my myth for the for the unfaithful. All right, Brandon, then we’ll backtrack

25:41into your Okay. All right. So, sticking with the unfaithful.

25:47This is something that I think I see a lot of people like fall victim to honestly thinking that it’s going to

25:52help. And I think even their heart’s in the right place a lot of time, but it just in the long term it doesn’t seem to

25:59help that much. And it is, here’s the myth. Plating your partner will rebuild

26:06trust. Just listen to every other episode on

26:11Therapy Brothers. Yeah. I mean, I hate to say it, but a

26:16lot of times, you know, they come on. this myth is so prevalent is it I need to become what they what

26:24they want me to be in order for me to make things right in essence I after

26:30I’ve betrayed my partner this is really hard because I’ve hurt them so bad and

26:36here’s the here’s the thing is like there there is naturally like in the break after the break of trust there’s naturally kind of this place where I’ve

26:42done the I’ve been the one that’s done wrong I should do everything in my power to try to help fix it and and make it

26:47better even though I can’t I can’t fully fix it, but I should like if I’m going to be have a fully kind of like broken

26:55say repentant heart, then my desire would be to want to be able to fix what I’ve broken, right? The problem is is

27:00that it gets attached to this belief that goes with it that is says because I’ve hurt my partner, I am now always

27:08responsible to make sure that they’re never upset with me. Yeah. And and then when I start doing

27:13that, I have a tendency to lose my shape, lose my integrity,

27:21sacrifice my values, and now I’m eroding my values in myself some of the time

27:27because I think I’m responsible to make sure my partner never has any bad feelings. Yeah. And this is really hard,

27:34Tyler, because when you’ve hurt somebody, the last

27:41thing you want to do is to continue to hurt somebody. Um,

27:46but it’s it’s and it feels like if I’m honest, sometimes that truth is painful

27:53and hurts you. And it is. And it is. Sometimes it does hurt, but it’s a it’s a you’re selling out for

28:00the short term and destroying the foundation of a relationship by by just

28:06because think about it. If I’ve hurt you because I’ve been dishonest

28:11and then we try to navigate our relationship and what I do to try to keep the peace is show up dishonest.

28:19Am I harming or helping the relationship? I’m avoiding I’m avoiding the acute

28:25consequences of of being different or having a disagreement and seeing your pain at the expense of the long-term

28:33hopes that we can actually be two authentic people who choose to be in a relationship with with each other in our

28:39authenticity. Right? So, let’s say let’s give an example. Let’s say as the betrayer,

Individual Healing

28:49um, you show up at home and your betrayed partner is like, “Hey, I want to go spend 10 grand on a retreat. Like,

28:58I’m going to go to this retreat and I I want to spend 10 grand on it.” And um,

29:03let’s say you like stop for a minute, you regulate

29:08yourself, and you like really feel like, “Wow, that’s a lot.” And that like I

29:14can’t honestly say that works for us right now. Yeah. Like we don’t have that in the budget.

29:19We don’t have that money. Like it just doesn’t it doesn’t work. So now there’s two there’s two values in conflict with what you’re saying most

29:25likely, Brandon. One is is that I want to be the person who if it’s going to help you with your healing, I I’ll kind

29:30of do whatever it takes to try to help facilitate that. I want to have that attitude. And when I

29:37look at the budget, man, like the stress that we’re going to have trying to climb out of the hole

29:43after that expenditure might not be worth the squeeze in terms of our recovery

29:49because now we’re going to have to like figure out how to and so let’s say your budget together on

29:54that. Let’s say you voice that like, oh, I don’t know if we can afford that. And you do it in a kind, loving way. Um, and

30:01your partner comes back with, you did this to me. I can’t believe you won’t support me. What’s wrong with you? Like,

30:08how come? Like, just blame back, right? And then all of your years of um you

30:16know, believing that pleasing a woman is what gives you your self-worth. Um all of the triggers around shame of

30:24I’m letting somebody down, no one will love me as I am, come up. It’s really

30:30easy to get broken down in those moments. Yeah. Well, and and broken down isn’t

30:35just like, “Okay, go ahead and do it.” Broken down is also becoming a jerk and being like, “No, I’m going to fight this

30:40out and be a total jerk to you.” Yeah. Right. Right. It’s the shame. Any of the shame screens

30:45we talk about either way, either direction. All the directions. Um, I I I brought up this

30:51example because it’s a tough one, Tyler, because the the competing values that you’re talking about, like you can see

30:58like, well, yeah, they should just let they should just say, yeah, go. Like, we’ll go into whatever debt there is

31:03because, yeah, you’re hurt and you want to do this. Like, but at the same time, it’s important for

31:10both partners in that relationship. If if if the betrayed partner really wants

31:16to go and realizes it’s hard on the budget, they need to be honest about that, too. Even if that’s difficult,

31:24and then the key is is learning how to navigate that together where you’re both showing up honest in that relationship.

31:32Right. Right. Right. And then that’s where you get into like dialectical discussions, which is the both end of, hey, I do want

31:38your your your I want to value your process. I want to value your healing. I want to Is there any way we could look

31:44at five other options other than this $10,000 one or how do we work on this together?

31:50Yeah. Like like let’s let’s figure out what some next steps could be towards that while also taking into account that

31:57there there is going to be extra stress on our budget if we end up doing this. Right. Or or maybe it’s like we don’t we really

32:04honestly we just can’t afford it. Right. Right. But but to sit down

32:09together and be honest and empathetic with you. I mean I that’s the ideal scenario is that both partners feel

32:16connected to seen. They appreciate that each other came to the table honest

32:21even though it’s hard. Yeah. And they they can negotiate and compromise and and feel understood and

32:27voila. Like whatever’s going to happen either they’ll go on the retreat or they won’t.

32:32But there’s that there’s that level of trust and strength that goes on in the relationship. If it’s just placating, if

32:40it’s just like, okay, I’m the world’s worst. Yeah, I support you. Like, just

32:46go ahead. Then then you are destroying trust in your relationship.

32:52Um, it’s what we talk about with your partner will start to say, I never really really know where my partner

32:58stands on any of this stuff. Like I want some push back because I want them to have a freaking

33:03opinion about something. How come how come my opinion is always their opinion? Like it’s always like the same. It’s

33:10always like who the freak are they? I don’t even know them.

33:15Admittedly, Brandon, that was maybe one of the biggest complaints right after D-Day in our my own marriage was my wife

33:21would come and she would start fights and I’d be like, you know, you know me, Brandon, I can I could be the old

33:29I can play Kate with the best of them. And uh and she would keep going and keep going and come and then she’d finally

33:35say it. Just come flat out and say it. She’s like, I just want you to fight with me.

33:41Just have an opinion. just fight with me for a minute. I’m like, “Where’s who are you? Where’s your

33:47backbone?” And all I’m doing is making it worse because I’m just like, “Don’t like she

33:52could she could change.” You want You want an opinion? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. You want an opinion? Okay. Okay. Now, I’ll give you an opinion because you

33:57want an opinion. And she’s like, she’s like, “I just want

34:04I just want to have a disagreement with you, Tyler.” Like, yeah, just please like then. And so all

34:09of a sudden I’m thinking like why is she saying all this outlandish stuff and she’s like how far can I push the guy

The “My Fault” Myth

34:16like like when will he hold his shape you know like well this this is like a masculinity

34:22femininity issue too like the the feminine wants to be with with a man who

34:28who trusts himself who has confidence who knows who he is. Um and and if

34:34you’re just always just chameleon becoming what she is telling you who you are.

34:40Yeah. She doesn’t feel safe because she’s not with a man that will hold form

34:47regardless of of her. There’s no trust there. Right. And there’s a way to hold form

34:52and to be honest and be loving and empathetic and safe for your partner as

34:58well. And that’s that’s what feels like strength to your partner, not the placating thing.

35:04That’s right. Um I’m reminded of like Jodie back in the day. She’d sit down with with guys and just say like first sessions and

35:11just be like you have no leg to stand on. Like you you do not have a right to have an opinion right now.

35:17Yeah. And I’d see that and be like what? Like that that’s supposed to help. Yeah.

35:23That doesn’t help. You know, I think I think long term it doesn’t help. Shortterm it makes sense. It’s like, hey, you might want to tread

35:29lightly and make sure that you you’re attending to your partner’s needs. And long term,

35:34of course, if you lose your shape long term, you’re you’re you’re dooming the marriage in the long run. Yeah.

35:39Yeah. All right, Tyler, we’re getting low on time, so let’s do this last one. We we said we’d do four, so here’s the fourth.

35:45This one is for the betrayed side of the betrayed side myth. Um, I am responsible

35:52and I can fix it. So what we mean by that is on the inside like an internal belief.

35:59Yes. System. Yes. So if I were if I were sexy enough, if I were nice

36:08enough, if I I complained less. If I was Yeah. a better partner, a better spouse, then they wouldn’t go

36:15abandon me, hurt me, reject me, and betray me. Um, so I will amp up all of

36:22the trying to be better for them so that they choose me and somehow their

36:29behaviors of of compulsion and betrayal are my fault. Um, and Tyler, I I I’ve

36:37worked enough with partners where they they’re kind of like, “Yeah, I know. Like, you tell me this isn’t my fault.

36:43You tell me this isn’t about me.” Um, but it doesn’t feel that way. doesn’t feel that way to a lot of people. Some

36:50people like it it never feels like it’s about them. They’re like, “Yeah, yeah, I But for a lot of betrayed partners to

36:57just be like, yeah, it’s not about you.” It’s invalidating to those feelings of shame and fear that come up when you get

37:05betrayed. Um, however, it is a myth.

37:10It is not about you. Um and um as much as you try to make it about you because

37:17then you feel like some semblance of control it it doesn’t work. Um and in the end

37:26like where do they end up Tyler when they when they make it all about them and they’re trying to control it by being nicer and better. And

37:33I I think it it goes a couple of ways over the long run is is taking

37:39responsibility for stuff that’s not yours leads to you feeling helpless, powerless, feeling more shame. And then

37:47it has a tendency to then also yield deeper resentments. Because when you start to betray your own values

37:55for the sake of the greater good, you can only do that for so long before you have to either resent yourself or

38:00somebody else. Yeah. And uh and then and then you’re burned out and tired and and then you find

38:06yourself pulling away even though you don’t want to let go of the relationship. I was talking to a partner a couple

38:12years ago and she had like she had hit

38:17the gym hard um after D-Day like just and lost all this weight. She was like

38:24really fit in shape and she was pissed off cuz she was like like what like what

38:31else can I do? like I am like I am like you know she was saying like I am hot

38:37like I am what else can I do? Yeah. I’ve gone and done everything I can to be desirable for my partner.

38:43Yeah. And I was listening to her and I was just thinking like she she doesn’t understand what she’s dealing with on

38:50the other side. The default the default belief system is what’s already undermining what her efforts are. Is

38:57that she believes in doing that that somehow she’s going to make herself so irresistible

39:03that he will only choose this this or this when in reality she doesn’t realize

39:08that his issues were his long before she was in the picture. And his issues will

39:14be his issues regardless of who he’s married to. Yeah. I mean, how many times I’ve sat

39:21down with people who their spouse is just a lovely person, just a good human

Takeaways

39:27and a great spouse in in so many ways, and they’re off cheating with like, you

39:34know, they’re cheating. It’s like really like like what you’re what are you doing? Like Yeah.

39:39And and and it’s just more, you know, evidence that this isn’t about the the

39:45partner. It’s not about the marriage. Um, it’s about the individual with their own

39:50compulsive problems and their own lack of shame, resiliency. Yeah. Their addiction, their mental illness, their Yeah. Whatever we want to

39:56call it. It’s not about you. It’s not about you. Yeah. Tyler, this was this was good

40:03talking about these things. Um, I wish we had a little more time. Um, but uh maybe we could get more into these some

40:10other time. I’m sure we will. It’s good having you back from vacation, Brandon.

40:15Yeah, it’s good to be back. So, if this was helpful, please uh leave us a

40:20review. Um head over to YouTube, check us out over there. We’d love some more subscribers there. And uh until next

40:28time, keep on keeping on.