Will my Spouse ever WANT me Again?

Will my spouse ever want me again? Brandon, how is the fourth, man?I love the fourth. It’s like the best holiday of the year. Other than maybe Thanksgiving for me. I know. It’s You know, it’s great. Iloved it. You know, my my neighbors put on this party that is over the top. Justincredible. Um they did a full fireworks show like like a city does. It wascrazy. that we had like there’s like six foodtrucks. Like a neighborhood party. A neighborhood party. It was It wasincredible. That’s really cool. I loved it. Yeah, it was fun. Just get out with the kids. What did you guys do?We um same thing. We spent a lot of time just kind of just with the family, a lotof outside time and then, you know, just really good food, too. Do you remember that time we we ran the fireworks shopand and sold fireworks? We got a bunch of extra leftovers.We opened them up and like dumped all the gunpowder into one pile. Threw a match on it justI don’t know what we were thinking. And then there was this big mark in the road like melted the tar justa big black black spot in the road. It’s amazing that It’s amazing we all survived our Rex lost an eye for a while.Well, Rex Rex was throwing firecrackers and for some reason he thought it was a good idea to light one and then get stuffing snails stuffing and thenthrowing them and he right by his eye pop and I remember him saying like I he started kind of crying like I can’t seeout of my one eye and I thought he’s lost it for good. I was like yeah he might have just blownhis eye up. Yeah, he’s done. Get him a patch like Yeah. but it cameback. So, thank goodness. Yeah, we’ve had our fun with fireworksour day. So, anyways, should we get into it here,Tyler? Let’s do it, Brandon. All right, Greg, welcome to the show. Yeah, thanks for having me.Yeah, if you could give us a little bit of background. Um, just tell us what’s going on and we’ll go from there.Well, um, a couple years ago, I, uh, had some betrayal behaviors, and it took mea while to clean those up. Um, but I’d say up to about, um, uh, I’d say abouttwo years ago, I finally really kind of got those out of my life. But, um, we’ve, we haven’t been intimate in threeyears. And what was kind of weird is even while I was still struggling torectify the betrayal behaviors, I was a part of 12step and I even went to impatient for a while. Uh she wouldstill be intimate with me. Um but all of a sudden that stopped and um and thegoalpost kind of moved um over the course of time. it became well it becamewell you know I also had some issues with drinking and I had to kind of clean those up and and I you know and I and Iyou know I still I still have to really be careful with it but I by and large changed my behaviors there and then it

“I Don’t Feel Safe”

became well you know the way you talk to me is you you say mean things to me when you’re mad and so I had to kind of workon some of my anger issues and and uh and but she still says I don’t feel safeand it’s like no matter how hard I try and I I’ve really done a lot of work to clean up all those things. My mymanaging my sexual uh compulsive behaviors, uh becoming more responsiblewith drinking, um you know, learning how to control manage my anger. I’ve I’ve been I’ve worked so hard to control allthose and I’ve made great strides and and there’s I’ve made real changes, but she it’s like she still keeps movingfurther and further away. We’re actually separated right now. we were separated, living apart. Um, she recently let meback into the house, but even when we moved back in the house, some of the old patterns of kind of little conflicts uhresurfaced. Um, I haven’t said anything mean to her, but um, she still is kindof holding that against me. Um, and it’s we’re almost and we’ve actually we’re back to yeah, I’m going to file fordivorce. This is not working out. And um I’m I’m just beside myself like what doI got to do? I’ve worked so hard to bring things back together, but the harder I try. It’s it’s like it just shejust keeps moving further away and um and becoming even more and more thegoalpost the go the bar keeps getting higher and higher and uh it’s never it’snever quite good enough. And I’m just wondering to myself, is this the new norm? And even if we don’t divorce, isthis just going to be the new norm? And is really is she ever going to come back to me? Is she ever going to, you know,feel safe enough? Because that’s what she said. She said, “I need consistency over time, and you know, I need safety,and I’m trying to give that to her, but is she going to come back to me?” Is when I mean, does she expect perfectionhere? Cuz I mean, I’m I’m still I’m not perfect, and is she ever going to come back to me? Is is is good enough evergoing to be good enough? That’s I guess that’s what I’m wondering. It’s a great question.Yeah, it’s a good question. This is actually probably a question that I think a lot of our listeners would probably be wondering and asking abouttoo. Um, when you say come back to me, you’re talking about emotional, friendship,

Greg on Anger & Drinking

sexual, all of it, or are you talking about specific parts of it? Yeah. Affection, intimacy, sexualintimacy. Um just uh day-to-day effectaffection, trust. Is she ever going to trust me again and just kind of be justlet herself like like entrust herself to me again and just relax enough to justtrust me with herself and and all those things. Okay. And then just a couple ofquestions just to be clear. You had a disclosure a few years ago. Is that whatyou said? Yeah. And and it took me a while to I I struggle with even after disclosure Icontinue to struggle with porn and and then I had a near inst a near affairabout two years ago. I didn’t know there was no sex but there was definitely emotional involvement and physicalcontact and um you know and that was after a year of no intimacy. So, I thinkI was kind of feeling entitled and and rejected and and uh somebody paidattention to me and you know um but uh uh but even then I even since then umand she knew about that and um and unfortunately that was around the time of our anniversary so that was abad time for that to happen but um just but since then I mean I I mean I I’ve uhreally gotten a handle on there’s been you know every now and thenI have a minor slip with looking at uh explicit images but um even then it’svery few and far between like maybe once every couple of months but there’snothing else so yeah okay okay so um and then and then sheinvited you back into the house when how long ago about uh 3 weeks agoabout 3 weeks weeks ago. Okay. So, I just want to make sure I’m tracking this properly. D-Day kind of happened aboutthree years ago. You didn’t really start working recovery until about two years ago.D-Day happened about eight years ago. Eight years ago. Okay. So, so then whatwas the three years ago thing? That’s when she stopped being intimate with you. Yeah. Okay. Okay. And then you didn’t reallyget serious about your recovery until about two years ago. It’s not that I didn’t get serious aboutit. It’s just it really took me that long to give up the things I needed togive up to really I mean I I mean I was part of12step and I was working to you know I was going through the 12 steps andworking all all the things to try and get my behaviors in check but it wasn’t until really um uh yeah it’s really beensince 2 years that that one instant where I just have not had any have anymore problems. Okay. And so so then then to encapsulateeverything you’re saying across all of that, you found yourself working reallyhard trying to change the behaviors that you need to in order to create trust and safety in the relationship. And you feellike the more that you do that, the further away she gets and you’re kind of tired and exasperated.Yeah. and she’s not like it’s it’s like I I see myself making these changes andand changing my behaviors and and I but despite that I don’t see her gainingconfidence. I see her l I see her just slipping further and further away and every you know any any she says shedoesn’t expect perfection but any sort of little like well I saw you had threedrinks on Friday and that’s more than you should be drinking you know it’slike that you know I’m now how am I you know your behavior is still persisting

What Builds Trust?

it’s like well okay um I don’t know know that that’syou know cause for you know saying that you you don’t feel safe andyou know um Greg Greg can I ask you a question um soeight years ago was D-Day three years ago you really started to get like things more under control during thatfive or or two years ago right um two years ago so during that sixUm, how how was your honesty with her? How how was your openness andtransparency when you would slip up or when things like that would happen during those years?I struggled with it. I struggled with it. Um, I I mean I I would be um but youknow I I um uh and then it’s also a matter of um youknow how much how much do you really need to disclose too? So, but uh then uhbut yeah, I I mean I I struggled with it a little bit, right? Um yeah. So, were you in the12step program the whole time like from 8 years ago till now? Yeah, 12step. And um yeah,I joined 12step almost immediately as soon as I started having really started the behaviors kind ofwent out of control. Okay. Um, so as you started 12step, itsounds like it took you a while to really grasp being honest with yourself about your powerlessness over over it,right? Yeah. Um, and then it and then it took you a while to understand a step three ofturning your will in your life over to the care of God because you were in control and, you know, trying to reallybe careful about what she found out or what she knew for a while, right? Yeah. Yeah,I mean I I would disclose stuff. It just it would just it was just hard for me to do it.So So okay. Um would would you like trickle it? Would you like tell her a little bithere or you know? Sometimes I trickle it. Sometimes she would find out before I tell her. Um I had trouble telling her on her24-hour time frame. Um but I guess I learned over time that eventually itcomes out, you know. No. So before D-Day, um, how long have youbeen married? Uh, 13 years. So 5 years before the D-Day. So were youacting out the whole time? I had issues with porn, but it didn’t turn intoum it didn’t turn into going outside the marriage for until about 2016or late late 2016. And with those issues with porn, you would just hide them from her and notnot talk about it. Well, she knew about it and she at that point she didn’t think it was a big problem.Oh, okay. Okay. Um Okay. So, now that you’re sober, you’rewondering why isn’t she feeling safe because you’re sober and when is shegoing to be vulnerable with you again? So, that’s what I’m that’s what I’m hearing. And the goalpost kind of moved. It was

Two Truths at Once

like, okay, well, I’ I’m not acting out anymore. It’s like, well, yeah, but you know, now now it’s about it for I hadsome struggles with drinking and and some irresponsible behaviors there and you know, and then it was like, well,you’re doing that and that doesn’t make me feel safe. Okay. Okay. Well, we got to get that a hold of. It’s like, well, now it’s like you’re when you get angryat me, you you lose your you lose your temper and you say mean things. and and uh and that became the real and so okayit’s like well I really got to get my emotional control my emotions under control and so it’s like okay we’redoing all that you know um okay so in your mind Greg what rebuildssafety and trust uh in my mind it’s from what you understandit’s not acting out it’s um you know if I if I do drink it’s being veryresponsible with it and and um and I I toyed with quitting um with stop I didstop have some periods where I stopped completely for a while um and uh but uhlate in the past uh I’d say couple months I’ve been able to I I’ve beenable to really uh be responsible with it um when I do when I don’t drink thatfrequently anymore. Um and uh and then it’sum just making sure I uh reallycontrol my learn to control my anger and um you know learn how to self-regulatewhen uh she does things that are hurtful or disrespectful or um violate myboundaries. um you know so because there’s some of that behavior on her side as well thatis still ongoing um some things slightly improving but a lot of lot of behaviorsstill that she does that I’ve got issues with that I’ve got problems with that are stillpretty pretty frequent. Um, but that doesn’t excuse me from I still love her

Conditional Recovery

and I still want to be with her and if and she needs me to controlbe have control my anger and so I I’m I need to do that regardless of what she’sdoing. Could I just maybe just a couple ofthoughts? One of them is kind of amusing that might be worth thinking about and checking out with your wife and theother one is really kind of a question for you Brandon for the sake of trying to help Greg. Yeah. Said, “All right.” Um, the first thoughtthat’s kind of coming to my mind, and I’m just wondering if you’re kind of in this process a little bit right now, is that two things can sometimes behappening at the same time, and both can actually be true. And it sounds like,you know, from your perspective, you started this journey a long time ago, and it took a little while on the uptake, but then the the 12 stepsstarted to kick in. You started to see yourself differently. You feel like you’re making a ton of progress. You like the direction you’re going, andthat feels really, really good. Yeah. Right. And that feels true. I mean, that’s that’s true to you,right? And at the same time, a betrayed partner, this isn’t uncommon, because ofthe the way that she’s been hurt, she’s got eyes to see the red flags that couldstill cause problems. And so, as you’ve kind of done your bumps and bruises of growing over the last several years,chipping away at dishonesty, but still being dishonest, chipping away at sobriety, but still being not fullysober. What she sees is he’s still not he’s still not doing all of his work

Entitlement & Shame

because that’s that stuff is still happening and that’s dangerous and it doesn’t feel right. But what you feel islike, man, but I’m really changing. And she can’t see the feeling on the inside. She just sees what is right there andthen she feels something. And the feeling is the thing that I wonder ifshe’s still queuing into. And I this is where I want to ask Brandon if you feelwhat you feel from Greg in the way that he’s approaching this.Yeah. Um just to and Tyler’s setting me up togive you some pretty uh direct feedback here. Um but I feel a sense of of wellsadness but I I feel entitlement. um I feel some shame still from you andand so like let me give you an example when you’re managing your anger. Let’s say she’s she’s doing some she’s beingrude or having some bad behaviors or whatever and if you’re telling yourself, “Well, I need to create safety. So, whatI’m going to do is bite my tongue and not get angry even though deep downinside like I’m pissed off like and I’m sick and tired of her railing on me,right? But I’m going to be nice and I’m going to I’m not going to like lose it.Um that what I do is I what I’ve started really doing recently is saying I’ve got todisengage from the situation. And a lot of it has to centers around our raisingkids when I feel like she’s kind of coming in and and managing orcontrolling how I trying to manage or control how I parent or just taking overcompletely taking over completely over from me completely. And uhagain, a sign a sign that she doesn’t trust you, right? Yeah. But and and that’s good to disengage.That’s that’s good. Here’s here’s the issue is if alls you do is back off and

Is Greg Safe Yet?

just hold resentment toward her and wish that she would trust you, you’reactually fueling the problem of being unsafe because because you’re not being totally vulnerable and honest with her.You’re also taking personal um a lot of the things that she’s doing. So there’s a to Tyler’s question, there’s a lot ofsigns to me, Greg, that the underlying problem is still there. And so your wifeis hyper sensitive to that right now. She might go overboard to see it, likesee every, but there’s a lot of signs that the underlying problem is still present. And so she’s not running toyour arms. Um, this is good news and bad news for you. that all the work thatyou’ve done is not done in vain. That sobriety is awesome, Greg. But the good news, the good news is youhave opportunity to actually shift into becoming a safe man.And I would say right now, you’re not there. And what me and Tyler will will show you what this actually means. SoTyler, did I answer your question? Yeah. No, I think this is this is like I’m so grateful, Greg, that you’re onhere today and I hope that you’ll be able to feel and maybe glean something from this that’ll be valuable to you.But what that’s what I’m getting at is that of course there’s two sides to this. We only have you here, so we’vegot to address you. There could be something that’s just like your wife is shut down. She’s not going to open up again regardless of what you do. Thathappens. That does happen sometimes. And sometimes you have to then be the one to be make a hard decision and go, you knowwhat, I’m probably in her way and we’re not really good for each other right now because of where things are at andthere’s too much water under the bridge and it’s probably the merciful thing to to end this. But because you don’t want

Recovery vs. Outcome

to end it yet and because you’re on the show, I’m trying to figure out like whatis it that I’m feeling from Greg? Because Greg’s doing some recovery work. Like you’ve you’ve gotten yourselfsober. You’re working on your anger. It sounds like you’re working on your your alcohol stuff. It sounds like you’retrying to find middle path in all of that, which might also be kind of messy for her to see. It’s a little bit easierif you just decide to stop drinking or if you decide to stop looking at images or porn or whatever, but when you’re still kind of dabbling there, that’sgoing to that’s going to feel less safe to her. But but really more what I’m feeling is I’m doing all of this so thatblank. I’m doing all of this so that she’ll trust me again. so that she’llfeel safe again, so that so that we can have intimacy again. So that I can be good enough. And I think what Brandonsaid is the two the two words that I’m feeling is, you know, the resentment builds becauseI’m working so hard and she doesn’t see it and she’s not giving herself back to me and I deserve it because look howhard I’m working. But then the bigger part to me is I’m still feeling this uh I don’t know if it’s shame or lack ofself forgiveness or something else where I’m still chasing her needing to show me I’m good enoughrather than really truly like pausing and looking at the mirror and going like I really like where I’m at and who I’m

Greg’s Values

becoming and the trajectory I’m on and I’m going to give her the best of me no matter what.Um because because I like who I am already. Um, I don’t know if any of that is true or not. Greg, what what’s goingthrough your What are you thinking right now? Uh, it’s hard. Some of it’s resonating. um you know um I I I am not I’m I’m Iknow that I I need to do these things for myself and I I do want to do them for myself and without a doubt you knowum you know I I do I want to be you know I’ve recently done a lot of thinking about what my values are and I’ve cometo like hey respect respect kindness and composure are are kind of like okaythat’s the man I want to be I’m sorry not respect responsibility responsibility kindness and composure orthat’s that’s the that that’s the I like that that’s the values I want to live to andyou know and I feel like I’m really starting to live in accordance with those or or I have I have been living inaccordance with those for the last really the last maybe year or almost a yearand um but uh yeah I still I I Ium have a lot of I I still struggle with liking myself. Um so I I I really do Istill struggle with liking myself. Um I still uhhave a lot of shame of you know it of where things are at with her and Ibecause of because of me and uh so that’s all true. Yeah.

Loving Yourself First

um your your recovery, you need to divorce yourrecovery from her. So like what what I mean is like I I loved what you justsaid like be be compassionate, be kind, be responsible. Um if if you’re trulythose things, um you’ll you’ll be a safe man. If you have agendas and you haveshame, then you will consume her, use her, um try to get worth from her, whichwhich will will shoot yourself in the foot. It’ll it’ll get it will yield the opposite results of what you’re tryingto get. So, yeah, just focusing on yourself. That’s easy to say,right? Yeah. Um but but like focus on your real deeprecovery. So go your layers that you’ve gone down like are good. You’ve gottensobby. You’ve worked the 12 steps. He’s working on a character flaw of anger. Yeah. Working on those those characterflaws. That that’s good. That’s all good stuff. Um but the real question is is

Root Causes of Addiction

you know why why has addiction come into your life? What has it what has it been soothing? Um what trauma is there toactually take a look at? And in what ways can we can you get yourself to a place of loving yourself again? So thatin those moments when you don’t get sex or she’s frustrated by something um youyou really in a stoic way can handle that. You can sit in that in in a anenergy of strength. Um I’m going to say this to you Greg. you I think youunderstand this but you know on one hand you’re saying to us like go how long do I have to wait and how long has it beenand on the other hand I’m hearing years and years of like pseudo recovery likekind of in it kind of not right and so from her standpoint if you were to take a step back it’sgoing to take some time to actually be like I I can trust him um because youwere you were kind of in the worst um type of scenario when it comes to tryingto build trust where it’s like I’m working recovery but I’m not really it’s like there’s a form of recovery butdenying the power thereof basically. So how will she know how will she knowthat it’s actually not that this time? And the way she’ll know that is she’ll feel it from you. She’ll feel yourstrength. Your ability to empathize with her will be awesome. your ability to behonest with her. And you don’t have to be perfect. You might lose your cool once in awhile, but you can come back and say, “You know what? I want to own that. I’m going to take responsibility for that.”Um I always do whenever I have. I’ve always done that. That’s awesome.And and it’s not even Sorry. And it’s not even that often. I

“How Good Is Enough?”

mean, the last time I uh really lost it and said mean thingswas what started our se out of separation was back in February, youknow. Um and um so it’s it’s not likeI’m doing this I’m I’m losing my cool every week. It’s like once every couple of months, you know, so how good is goodenough, you know? And you own it when you do that, right? Absolutely. I go, you know what? you. I I totally did. And And I always on mypart, I I don’t feel like she’s always done done her part on taking responsibilityfor what about the thing you did that was kind of not so kind to me, you know, orwhat not so respectful to me. There’s there’s never really been that side of it, but um you know, uh I’ve kind oflearned to just focus on my side of the street, I guess. Sosometimes, you know, I think Brandon and I are trying to put our shoelves in bothof you guys’ shoes. And I think what Brandon’s saying is true that being in your shoes, it’s hard to be working theway that you feel like you are. And to have a need or a desire or a want to be so connected in a relationship and tohave it in your face all the time that it’s not, that is a really it’s a really hard place to be emotionally. It’s like therethere’s like a void that’s always open on the inside wanting it to be filled or to to make sure everything’s okay. Soeverything Brandon and I are saying I know comes with an intense amount of work and struggle and pain that goes onwith it. Right. Y that’s that’s really hard and I think just I think just acknowledging that andvalidating that what we’re talking about here is not easy and it’s and and there is a real process of of true pain. Ipart of where I think Brandon’s trying to go with you is is that not only do you start to get sober and start to work

Boundaries & Empathy

on your anger, the next step is to be consistent with that. And yeah, every 6 months orwhatever, like that’s probably an improvement. And if there’s a continue improvement along those lines, that’sgoing to continue to build trust over time. But but part of also what’s kindof like going on here is Brandon I think is getting at if your wife is actuallymistreating you, you can lovingly show empathy for her pain while still alsobeing authentic with your boundaries. And that would also be building trust because it’s authentic.Um, and if you’re just trying to please her and always be safe and always just be like purely composed, which is great,but then you don’t ever get a chance to actually say, “Hey, that didn’t feel great.” Or, “You know what? I’m not going to talk anymore if you’re going tocall if we’re going to call names or whatever else. I’m just giving examples. I don’t know if that’s happened in yours or not.” Um, then it doesn’t actuallyfeel safe. And then here’s another thing that starts to happen in many relationships when there’s been thiskind of breach. And what Brandon said is true that there was this kind of like she doesn’t know how sturdy the groundreally is because sometimes it’s looked sturdy and it hasn’t been. And so, but when there’s been this kind of a breachand then trust starts to actually be rebuilt, sometimes it’s conscious, but more often it’s subconscious. Thepartner who’s still wondering if it’s really safe, if you’re actually really safe, will actually in some ways sort oftest the safety of the situation. And this is where people who’ve been working really, really hard throw theirhands up and be like, “No matter what I do, it’s never going to be good enough.” When in reality, what it was was, “Holycow, like he’s actually been showing up in a certain way. Maybe I can breach thissubject that I’ve been carrying for a long time. Or maybe I maybe I’m going to kind of do this thing to try to try tosense whether or not I’m actually really safe with him or not, if he’s actually going to follow through with what he said he’s been doing.” And at thatmoment, that’s the next pass through in another drop of trust in the bucket or it’s going to or it’s going to blow all

Why Partners Test You

of the the water that you’ve been accumulating in the trust bucket out depending on your response.Right. Yeah, I see what you’re saying.Have you ever heard the analogy of the wind in the trees? Brandon loves this analogy.No. Well, you know, some of this, you know, who’s whose job is it to createsafety in a relationship? Uh, both of us,whoever can in the moment. Um, whoever’s strong enough to do that. Um, who needssafety more in a relationship? A man or a woman? Woman. Yeah, in my opinion, a woman. Why?Um, that’s just I’m not sure. I guess that’s just what how women are wired.Oh, yeah. It’s it’s if you think, you know, from a from a survival standpoint,like a woman’s job is to assess safety because they are vulnerable and ifthey’re around a man who’s dangerous um and uhyou know, they’re vulnerable to to being taken advantage of and hurt. And so it’s their job to be hyper sensitive andreally careful with their safety where a man is is like, “Yeah, safety in a relationship is important, don’t get mewrong, but you know, a a man will get close to a woman, be intimatewith a woman with less safety because, you know, it’s not as scary.”Um, yeah. And so, so the reason I’m bringing this up is, you know, the wi the wind inthe trees, um, our job as a healthy masculinity is to be the this the solidtree that is grounded and rooted and and stable. And the w the woman’s job is to be thewind that whirls, that that moves, that and at times they’ll be irrational and

Wind & Tree Analogy

emotional. Um, you know, if you were to you were to ask who’s who’s more emotional, men or women, what would yousay? Women. Yeah. That’s that they’re built that way for a reason. It’s important. So, it’slike why I’m bringing all this up, Greg, is a shift in perspective from your partcould be really good for you to to not to to not look at this as as equitable.Um, and now what Tyler said is absolutely true. you should stand in your truth and have your boundaries.That’s being the solid base. But but if you’re like, “Well, why canyou do this and I have to, you know, then you’re like tit fortat here andshe’s like, where’s I wish I was married to a man.” Do you see what I’m saying?I guess so. Yeah. What do you think about that? Um,I think I missed I missed the last bite. Audio went out or the sound went out the last part of your analogy with the treewhere but I think you were saying that you know she’s the wind that kind of sweeps around the tree and blows it andis that right? Yeah. Yeah. Um, but uh,yeah, I I guess I think you’re saying it’s she’s going to be more emotionally driven and she’slooking for somebody that can weather her emotions and,you know, weather some of her behaviors that are maybe moreemotionally driven and just kind of roll with them and not be tit for tat. wherewell you you behave this way so you know how can you hold that behavior againstme so but betrayal Greg betrayal is a blessing and a curse here so the betrayal gives

Why Women Need Safety

them an answer that hey I’m not with the safe man like I got betrayed I got hurtright so where’s the blessing do you know where the blessing is with this no it’s it’s it’s it’s good news and badnews Okay. Um, on one hand, like it itbecause of the depth of the pain and she’s still in a relationship with you. You’re not divorced yet.It gives you a ton of opportunity to start to show up as that solid tree.It g because she she’s going to whirl. You betrayed her like she’s like really going to be figuring things out here. Sothat’s the good news is it gives you ton of opportunity. The bad news in it is it’s really hard. It’s really difficultas the person rebuilding trust to stay so solid to stay steady. Our trustequation, honesty, empathy and consistency like it’s difficult to bethose things over time. Yeah, it really is right. However, as you as you strengthenyourself in your own recovery and do that underneath work, you’ll naturallystart to show up those ways. And it comes back to what Tyler was saying earlier. As you naturally do that,it will hand it back to her and give her a chance to either take risks with youagain or get really clear with herself that she never wants to do that again.

Final Thoughts

and she may or may not, right? Um, right now she’s saying, “Idon’t want to take those risks, but I don’t want to divorce you.” So, you’re in a limbo land, right?Yeah. Your job is to figure out how do I stay up truly, not not not in a fake way, buttruly empathetic and honest and do that over time, right? So, what do you thinkabout what I’m saying? Uh,it sounds like I’m not at a place where I could where I can sayum I can even ask the question, is she ever going to come back to me yet? Right. So, I need to keep working onmaintaining my recovery and maintaining my living. Not your not your sobriety, Greg.Yeah. Your recovery. Like I would I wouldn’t even say maintaining. I would say digging deeper into my recovery,right? Yeah. And uh um really living trying to live in intomy values that I’ I’ve figured out and and uh and really just keep hanging inthere and working to working to show up, working to make sure I’m showing up as the man Iknow I need to be is what I think I hear you saying.the man you were designed to be. Yeah. Um yeah, I think I think that’s that’sreally good, Greg. And there’s another thought that’s going through my mind that you can kind of know because partof the question is when do I know when to go? And what we know what we know is that weallow ourselves to be treated right up to the level we believe we’re worthy of being treated. And so this kind ofdubtales into what Brandon was talking with you about is is that the more that you grow into your authentic identityand your authentic strength, the more you’ll start to set boundaries in the relationship that are healthy. And thoseboundaries will do two things. They will invite a new relationship that will movetowards respect and intimacy and connection and safety and trust. And that’ll give your wife an opportunity tostart to opt in or out. And as you grow in your strength and in your confidence, not in the like this prideful egostrength, but in the self assured assuredness of being self forgiven and self-accepted and knowing who you areand being and liking what you see in the mirror, by nature of doing that work, your boundaries will move you to a spotwhere you’ll know when it’s time to move on. I see. Yeah.Because because right now you’re just exasperated and tired and she’s never coming back to you. But but your properboundaries aren’t in place yet because you don’t believe that you’re worthy of those things yet.Yeah, I see what you’re saying. Yeah. So, I know we’ve been talking a lot at you, Greg. What’s What’s going throughyou? Thoughts or feelings? um a little bit of discouragementbecause it sounds like just um if I really still want thisrelationship back, it’s more amount of time just living justenduring the lack of connection and the lack of love and affection and intimacy.Um and that’s hard. So, Greg, Greg, do you do you believe inGod? Absolutely do. I mean, I’m I’m a Christian. I’ve been a Christian since Iwas I became a Christian in high school. Um, and earlier in my life, I was veryfervent. I I had some things that kind of shook my faith up through my 30s. Anduh and and I’ve kind of struggled with my faith ever since. and and uh and andeven even in the last 10 years, I’ve had somehave had some things that made me really question not my faith, I think, but myhow how I how I seeuh Christianity and how I how how I perceive what it’s supposed to be. Soyeah, I’d love to dig into that with you even more. Umum but I just I I feel your discouragement and I I really appreciatewhat you said about maybe I’m a little too early to be even asking this question. Um but within that if if youcan find it, there’s a there’s a real place of of liberation and freedom andhope. And what that is is like whether she loves me or not, whether she choosesme to stay in this relationship, I can go create connection. I can go Ican be the man that is a vulnerable open man. I can reclaim myself. I can findmyself again. And guess what? Your relationship does not hold those cards.Your wife, whether she loves you again or not, does not hold those cards. And because of that, that’s awesome.Like that’s freeing. Do Do you see what I’m saying, Greg? Yeah. Yeah, I do. I do.He’s like, “But it still hurts, Brandon.” Yeah. Yeah. That’s exact. Yeah. Because I Istill I still do love her and I still I still do I I I see I see what I wantwith her and and uh you know um and itit I still don’t get to have that. Um but yeah, I hear what you’re saying. Umit uh finding that I guess you were saying val that self-validation isn’t dependent upon her. Well, but that self- validation,your your ability to actually create trust. It’s a catch 22. Your ability to actually create trust with her isdependent upon you having that self- validation. Um dependent upon you knowing you,right? And so it’s it’s awesome because you can let go of her and do this workand then hopefully we’ll see a product of that is you’re a safe man and she wants to be close to you, right?Yeah. But but you’re using fear and control to try to get her back to you versus usingfaith and surrender and letting go. Um and so you’re in control. How? I’m not surewhat you mean. You’re trying to be a good boy. You’re trying to do all the right things. You’re trying to stay sober. You’re trying to be honest. trying to I got todo this, I got to do that in order for her to love me again and be safe again versus versus like taking a risk andsaying I’m going to trust myself that I’m good. Um I’m going to turn my willin my life over the care of God. I’m going to let God love me here and I’m going to operate from that place and Ihope she loves me back. I hope she comes back. But I can’t force that. I can’t control that. I’m I’m going to show upas an honest, empathetic man regardless of her because that’s who I know that I am deepdown. And so that’s who I’m going to be. Responsible, compassionate, and kind. Ithink that’s what those are the three things you said, right? Responsible, kind, and composed. And composed. Okay. Yeah.So, I’m going to show up those ways, and she’ll either love me or she won’t. But that’s, you know, I’m not going tocontrol the outcome because you don’t have control over this outcome. Do you see what I’m saying? Do you seethe difference between fear and faith here? Yeah. Yeah.And a life a life of consistency of those things responsible, kind, andcomposed when done consistently over time will also grow you into a placewhere one day you’re going to wake up and be like, you know what? like I am all of these things and I feel goodabout all of those things and now I have choices that I otherwise didn’t feel like I could make before.Um, so so it that’s what Brandon’s saying is you’re playing with house money inside the relationship because everything you do for yourself is aninvitation for the relationship to get better too, but you’re still doing it for yourself anyway. So no matter what,you win, right? Yeah, I see what you’re saying. Yeah. Yeah. Um, anyway, Greg, it’s been reallygood to have you on. I can hear that there’s a little discouragement in your voice, but but I actually think that youbrought a lot of good here, not only hopefully for yourself when you go back and listen to this again, but for a lot of other people to be chewing on andthinking about themselves. This is a very, very common question, and I wantyou to know that you’re not alone in in all of this. By the way, Tyler, are we doing a rising sun uh giveaway?We hadn’t talked about it, but we probably should. We should. Greg, I’m throwing you in the in the draw in the drawing for a freepass to our retreat. Okay. Wow, that’s great. I’d love I’d love to have you there. Um,so, uh, we’ll let you know. Okay. Yeah, I’d love that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Brandon, we need tofigure out then what the drawing is. Is this for like again like we did last time for anyone who is a guest on the show or signs up to be a guest on theshow before before my birthday? Before your birthday? July 31st. July 31st. if you are if you are a guestor sign up to become a guest. And this also includes um women who if they want their husbandsto come, they can sign up to be guests, too. And we’ll we’ll put their name in the in the pot and give away a freerising sun, which is a a big value, by the way. Yeah. So, yeah. So, if you want to come on the show, then you got to go totherapy.org and sign up to be a caller on the show. But, we would love to have you guys.But, yeah, that’d be great. So, I think, you know, it’s funny, Brandon, because as you said that, I was thinking Greg is like the prime,he’s in prime position for something like what the Rising Sun Retreat would offer. Absolutely. Just that internal wrestle kind of stuffthat we’ve been kind of hammering away on. His recover his recovery is right there, ready to take off to the next level. So,yeah. Greg, thank you for being on. Appreciate you. Yeah, I really appreciate you guyshaving me. Yeah. All right, you guys.