Am I damaging my relationship with my kids by holding boundaries with my Ex?

Intro

Am I damaging my relationship with my kids by holding boundaries with my ex?Brandon, what’s going on? Uh just uh you know, eating a banana here.All right. Powering up with a good breakfast, I guess. Oh, yeah. Powering up with a good breakfast. Hey,really quick shout out to uh the total package. It’s her birthday today. Happy birthday. Uh so uh just want toshout out to her. Total pack the total package is our sister Lindsay by the way for people whoare listening. But uh it’s a very unique nickname. It’s a it’s a unique name but that’s basically growing up like she wasnickname. I think dad gave her the nickname like we were talking about how like what what boys she was going todate or whatever and basically how she was the total package. Talk about pressure.No kidding. Living up to some serious pressure there. Yeah. Dad would always say, “Oh, she’sLyn Lynn total package.” Total package. Like she’s got it all, you know, which which he’s which he’s not wrong,

Conflict with Ex

but yeah, might have it might have given her some pressure. So, um, she is the total package.She is. And she’s a great sister, and I just hope she has an awesome birthday. Yeah. Happy birthday, Pack.Yeah. Um, all right. Well, we have uh we have an agood friend of ours here today. um someone we know well and somebody whois just a warrior for truth and um just he’s awesome. So we’re really happy tohave him here and excited to get into the topic. Um but Adam I just wanted toask you so Adam has come to our rising sun. I think you might have come to it first one the first Bear Lake one orsecond one. Yeah the 22. So I think you had a 21 before that. Nice. if what was just talk about yourexperience a little bit if you don’t mind. Well, I was I guess I should, you know,say that I was a recipient of your guys’ at the time offer to come out and have it covered because of our our first timeof getting together. So, you know, that was a a great benefit to me. Um, you know, first of all, yourguys’, you know, kindness of of being able to offer that. So, you know, for me, the the experience was I mean, Idon’t want to be over dramatic, but life-changing from just who I wastrying to become, right? I was I mean, in our first episode, I was I was I was a wreck. If we if we go back andremember lots of lots of tears, lots of uh inability to really uh not just takefull responsibility for everything that had gone on up to that point just in my life and marriage and everything. So,you know, but Rising Suns kind of gives you that uh perspective of one beingaccepted for who you are and that you’re on a journey and you you don’t have tocontinue to really beat yourself up from a shame perspective, you know, in order in order to get intohealing. Um but it also helped me on that journey of I know you guys talk alot of it about it you know sobriety versus recovery you know really at thatbefore that point I thought just stopping whatever I was doing is was the point right actually understanding whyand why I use it and and who um who I was trying to become and all of thosetypes of things. So rising suns really opened you up to that perspective. And

Not Treated as Equal

then you creating a community of men has been the most important benefit andblessing or you know from from that retreat still in high contact with uheverybody from that 2022 um retreat and some of the others beforethen. So, um I know as far as recovery and andtrying to find who I needed to become, the community of men that I’ve found and rely on and for myself and and beingable to offer, you know, love and and assistance for them as well has been key to continued recovery and, you know,continued to wanting to work work out on my own issues and look at myselfdifferently, feel differently about who I am and love myself really asmy understanding now of how God loves me and not how I looked at how he loved me before. Sothat those are the biggest things that I learned from it and just you know there was a lot of spiritual experiences justa lot of love and vulnerability you know at the retreat. So,you know, Adam, I just got to say like you you did it sounds like you got a lot from it, but um Adam is somebody who hashe talks about that support. Um he has he has been an asset to the men thathe’s been around and been a great support um to the community. So, he’sdefinitely reciprocated and given back as well. and um you know it’s men likethat that really make a big difference. So it’s uh I mean thank goodness weinvited you to that one because uh you’ve been awesome. So and uh anotherside note I’m with two guys that probably the two guys in my life that like UFC the most I’m sitting with rightnow. So Tyler Tyler who’s your favorite fighter?We could do a UFC. I My My favorite guy right now is Corey Sanhagen. Yeah. Adam, what do you think of him?San Hagen’s good. We’ll see what he does in his championship opportunity. He’s gonna he’s going to take the title in his next fight.We’ll we’ll see. We’ll see. Well, speaking of fights, let’s talk about your ex-wife. No, I’m justkidding. Okay. Um but no, seriously, let’s shift gears

Power Struggles

just a little bit. Um, you know, Adam, you want to kind of get into how to navigateum working with your ex um effectively and just work through some difficultthings that you’re dealing with with that. If you could give some background and tell us what’s going on and we’ll we’ll dig into it.Yeah. So, I I think it’s good to kind of go back. So, you know, the first time we met kind of in the middle ofyou were in crisis DDay. uh well at least one of the many youknow up to that point but but at that point he was a pretty significant one. I made some, you know, pretty poordecisions around, you know, choices and it had caused, you know, a lot of a lotof chaos, a lot of fear, you know, not only myself but in my family and and atthe time my wife, which, you know, I I fully understand, you know, that. Sokind of went into that and then had hopes that you know by starting down a realrecovery journey versus just stopping doing whatever behavior that you knowcould uh get to a place where you know the marriage was saved but that didn’t happen. So even in between I think wetalked I hadn’t been divorced yet um right you know again and there was there wassome more followup there. So since then, you know, we’ve, you know, the divorce has finalized. It’s been a about it’sbeen over a year and a half now. I don’t live in Texas any longer. I live in Utah. Uh so moved back to Utah where mydaughter now lives in Lehi. So, you know, that’s where I’m at. And so it hasbeen it has been interesting as far as trying to navigate allowing the familyto move to Utah, you know, and then remain in Texas kind of alone. um youknow, not really family or a real support system around and then trying to find a new job that could get me toUtah. You know, through the divorce process that was the amount of emotionsand ups and downs that I felt throughout that process, you know, a lot of the self-doubt um was was pretty

Internal Boundaries

significant. to kind of do it alone. Not not necessarily. I have, you know, the men I could reach out to and and did,you know, as much as I could, but there was a significant time where I had to just spend alone.And those emotions, the depression, the, you know, the the shame and the doubtand just battling all of those things was was significant, right? And, youknow, it did it my current job at the time suffered. um you know I was amanager at the time of a team and the team didn’t necessarily perform verywell but it just it all suffered right so but since then you know been able tofind a job move up here um you know took took a job that does pay a little bitless money than than I had before but it’s it’s enough for what I need for nowbut um you know after getting up here it’s been this interaction with my exand I has kind of gone from, you know, can we get along? Can we be friends? Youknow, let’s do this and make it work for the the kids. Uh my son actually hasbeen he’s been on a mission, right? He’s on a mission in um in Brazil.Um but since I’ve lived here in Utah, he’s he’s probably been on a mission. So, the relationship with him is verydifferent. it’s not really that strained. Um,it’s it’s mainly been, you know, with my daughter, so, you know, which I want to be a part of her life, but there’s thecustody agreements and, you know, kind of How how old? She’s uh 16.

Showing Up as Dad

So, sophomore going into her junior year at Skyidge. Um,so you you know there it’s been a little bit of a balance trying to find a placeto encourage her to come be with me, you know, on the weekends or even when she chooses to. Um, you know, uh, theI think on my ex side, she wants to push my daughter to be with me more, which Iwould be happy to do, but there’s a little bit of strain there. there’s where she feels she I think she needs tobe with her mom, you know, u not necessarily know not necessarily feellike she feels like her mom can be alone for a long significant amount of time. So there’s there’s just this pulllike she’s caretaking for her mom. Is that what you’re saying? I I think so a little bit. You know, Idon’t know if she would identify it as that. You know, in this for, you know, thissummer I was supposed to have her for six weeks. um and you know had kind of pushed for that but my daughter justwasn’t interested in being with me that amount of time. Right.Okay. And so we’ve I’ve always made it, you know, kind of a, you know, this is whatI’d like. This is what we’ve agreed on, but didn’t really push the issue with her because she’s five minutes down theroad. and she she had mentioned, well, you know, mom says that, you know, umit’ll be really hard if you’re gone that long. What am I going to do while you’re away? And so it pulls her back into intothat situation. Makes her less likely to want to spend the time here, whether it’s, you know, boring or whatever, butit’s that time. So, you know, those those types of things, you know, so whenmy ex comes at me that I’m not spending enough time with my daughter, you know, it’s it’s kind of it gets into this, youknow, kind of digging back into my past, a little bit of name calling, a little bit of, youknow, you’re you’re this, you’re that. And that’s when I have to take my that’s when I take boundaries. I’ll cut offcommunication at that point and say I don’t I don’t have conversations like this where I’m going to be named or youknow shamed in in any way you know around this process. So then it leads

Relationship with Daughter

into, well, you know, you don’t want to talk to these things. I want to sit down and talk with you. And I continue toreiterate that, you know, in order for that to happen, you know, things have tochange as far as how she interacts with me, you know, and so there’s statements ofyou, you’re missing out on her and, you know, things that she’s doing and who she is and you don’t know anything goingon. So again, just and I continue to have to hold boundaries around thatthose types of things to to try to maintain my peace. But you know, I always fall back into these doubtingpositions where I’m like, is it too much? Right? Am I not compromising enough? Can I let go of certain things?You know, I I continue to get accused of being angry at her or hating her, my myex, right? Which is not true, right? It’s just during our marriage, I I neverreally stood up for myself or really held any boundaries. Just kind of alwayswent along to get along. Very known as a very nice guy, right? Uh very easy towork with. You’re the punching bag uh to some degree, but very very compromising. And you know, that’s whereI I realized I used pornography to maintain that, you know, calmness,right? Things get too out of control, I would turn to it, kind of calm back down and then, you know, be able to continueto be, you know, and show up and and uh, you know, do what I felt like I wasbeing asked to. So now that I’m having boundaries and not want not wanting tobe to be spoken to in a certain way, right, I get accused of being mean thatI hate and these types of things, which is really not true. So, uh, at leastfrom my perspective, but you know, I still wonder if taking such a asignificant position is possibly damaging the relationship and with mydaughter. I think it to some degree it is because she can see we’re not getting along and she’ll make statements ofthat, right? Why can’t you and mom get along? You know, it would be easier ifyou guys could get along. That type of stuff. So, um you know, anduh so that that’s just kind of where I’m at, right? It continues to continue to

Structure and Presence

come up over and over again. You know, little bit of name calling, you know,and I’ll have to hold those boundaries over and over and over um for for my own peace and safety iswhat I’ve told myself in my head. But am I overjustifying that? You know, have ittaken it too far, right? Am I digging in too much? What are the boundaries? Like is it justwhat you explained that you say, “Hey, we can talk later. We’re just not going to talk when we’re calling names.” Or like what is what’s the actualboundaries that you’re you’re setting? Uh just, you know, if we’re having a conversation, it’s usually through textor something. It’s, you know, uh bringing up my past a lot to to kind ofhit me with that or, you know, accusing me of being, you know, this or that,right? You know, that’s what she’s doing. What are your boundaries that when that start to happen? I don’tI don’t continue on with this the conversation. I mean, I’ve found myself a few timesgoing getting into a back and forth with her and then it then it never ends well, you know, fromthere, right? So, I just find it’s better for me just to cut it off and just say, you know, I feel she she will tell methat, you know, when are you going to step into co-parenting with me? When you going to do a better job? And I’ve justsaid, when you treat me as an equal, when you see me as an equal and you treat me as an equal, when we get together and have a conversation aboutour daughter, it’s not you’ve already made your mind up about what needs to happen and you just need to get me onthe same page, quote unquote, right? If you’re not going to ask my opinion, ifyou’re not going to, you know, get my feedback, you’re just coming into a situation saying, “This is what weshould be doing with her, and I need you to see it that way.” And when I have a different opinion, it kind of the lastcouple times it has escalated into, you know, her leaving, just you know, standing up and leaving. Somy boundary is you need to I need to be treated as an equal in our co-parenting, you know, process um in decision makingum you know, around our daughter. Adam, I I have some questions for you.So um and I want you to answer as honest as you can. Okay. Um,no promises. [Laughter] So, so independent of her of your ex,let’s let’s remove your ex from the equation just for a second. Just remove her. Okay. Um,I have two questions and it’s it’s your perspective and your daughter’s perspective. Um, are you are you doing agood job as stepping up as a dad for your daughter independent of your ex?

Tyler’s Boundary Story

just just what you think how you feel. Do you feel at peace with how you’reshowing up as a dad for for her? Um I I dookay do think there’s some improvement, right? I as far as my relationship withmy daughter, you know, I know she deals with a little bit more ofauthoritarian attitude on from her mom’s side, you know, you know, punishment and, youknow, for her, you know, if you’re not, do you notice you’re going right you’re going right to your I am. I am. And so I I amindependent of her. Is Adam a good parent for his daughter? What do you think? Right. So for me I the overall I try toprovide a a place of peace for her in this home. Okay. you know um provide you know theinput for her on you know when she is staying with me what you know would shelike to be doing what can we do you know try to do things together um you know ifthat’s possible I mean she is 16 and wants to hang out with her friends and boyfriend that but allow allowing for you know thoughthat to be you know a place where she gets to make decisions Right. And and my rules arejust, you know, let me know where you’re going to be, tell me if you’re going to be late, right? And we can kind of workthrough those. It’s it’s not much more than that. Now, so, you know, so so hang on, Adam. So, overall, youfeel good about how you’re showing up for her. Yeah. You know, I I want her to be moreopen with me, you know, about her life and things. I think there’s a little bit of a strain there. Mhm.Um, but I continue to try to encourage her and and let her know that she cantalk to me about anything and things like that, but you’ve yet to see that openness a little bit, but not a lot.So, so this this is hard to distinguish because she’s a 16-year-old girl, right? And so, she’s she’s just like in certainstages. And Tyler last week was talking about his his daughter and connecting to him. And I have teenage girls as well.And but but the like if she could givefeedback and say if I were to ask her like, “Hey, does does your dad love you and does he show up for you?” Like is ishe is he really showing up as a dad for you? And if she could be really honest or vulnerable with me, what type offeedback or what do you think she’d say? I I I think she would uh say yes as faras that being our relationship. Okay. So, she’s a 16-year-old. She’s doing herthing, but overall, like, dad has my back. Dad loves me. Dad provides safety.He He uh he protects me. He So, so then along comes your ex.Let’s get back to the ex. Along comes the ex and says, “You’re failing. You suck. You’re not showing up good enough.You’re not uh whatever her feedback is, right?” Yeah. Um,so if there’s some guilt or something going on inside of you, then your ex is

Daughter’s Injury

going to have a lot of power. Yeah. And it’s still there. You know, you know, 25 of years of beingmarried takes a long time to, I think, root out not being affected by thosetype of comments because, you know, I am at heart a people pleaser, right? I want to be liked andyeah, you know, accepted. And so it has been really hard for me to hold boundaries,right? But I I do still think it’s important. And so this is the this isthe place, you know, am I digging in too much? Well, and and you will dig in too muchif you’re reacting from a place of shame and fear. You’ll step into your powerwith love and compassion for your ex-wife if you’re at peace with howyou’re showing up as a man and as a father. Right. So, did you have a comment, Tyler? I think I cut.Oh, yeah. No, you’re good. I was I was actually wondering another question that goes along with that is I wonder if thequestion really isn’t am I digging in too much. I’m wondering in if you’re digging in enough in the right areas.And I wonder if you’re digging in in this area thinking that it has to do with just your parenting too when inreality there’s more to it than that. And and let me just explore this with you with where Brandon was going for asecond, Adam. um your wife, your ex-wife comes to you says in essence, you not playing alongwith what I want and the way I want it is actually hindering your relationshipwith our daughter because now you’re not as involved and now I’m left to do most of the parenting by myself and I want you to actually be more involved. She’sactually telling you to come be more involved and you walk away feeling like I suck um because of the way that itgets, you know, but but I also wonder if there’s a bit of your Mr. Nice guy that’s actually coming out. take yourex-wife out of it again in your actual relationship with a teenage daughterwhere you don’t want to necessarily like if you’re supposed to get her for 6 weeks, this is really really difficultcuz she’s 16. She she should be able to choose where she wants to go. She feels this pressure and guilt to be with hermom and support. It’s probably boring with that. It’s probably awkward with that. It’s probably weird being there because of the split and the lack oftime you spend with her. And and as a father who’s also prone to be a Mr. niceguy. It can be really easy to just be like, “You know what? Why don’t you just come over for the night this weekend andthen yeah, you can go hang with your mom for another week, even though I’m supposed to be with you for this six weeks.” I wonder if you’re sellingyourself short in the way that you’re showing up with presence and structurefor your daughter with what’s already built into the arrangements.And I’m thinking of like Dr. Megan Mer stuff, you know, she talks about this in the book Strong Father, StrongDaughters. on how we as fathers with teenage daughters there’s like almost like an epidemic that as they get olderinto their teen years they have a tendency to almost want to push us away and disconnect from us and Dr. Megan Mer

Shame and Setbacks

says that that’s part of the battle we have to fight is to always still somehow remain relevant to provide boundariesand acceptance and love and teaching to our daughters even when it feels likethey just assume not have us around. Uh can I give an example? So, like mydaughter’s her curfew is midnight and she got home at like 12:20.And uh and to her, she has a bunch of friends with no curfew. Yeah. And so, like, here I am like 12:20matters. Like, it it matters. Um and she’s like, “Why does it matter? Whydoes it you know, and she was pissed she’s pissed at me?” And um and I’m flexible. She texts me orwhatever, like, but she’s pissed at me. and and and in that moment when she’s pissed at me, like she knows that I loveher, I’ll protect her, and I care about her. Um, so so both those things exist at the same time. And what Tyler’stalking about with this Mr. Nice guy, it’s same thing with a wife, right? Same thing in a marriage of I in mymasculinity with my healthy masculinity to stand in that discomfort of being notliked is stepping up for them and for her,right? So, is that what you’re saying, Tyler? Yeah. Like another example of this, like this happened last year with my youngest daughter. Um,we she’s the one daughter who likes to go do the same kinds of things that I like with like hunting, things likethat. But last year, as she’s getting older, she’s got friends. She got some FOMO. She doesn’t want to miss out. We’dset this date to go on the elk hunt together for three days. And the day before, she was doing everything in herpower not to go. Like, she had plans with her friends. She wanted to do other stuff for the weekend. She didn’t reallywant to go anymore. She, you know, and and I just kind of held the line andjust said, “You know what? Like, we’ve already made plans. We’re going to have some good time together. I’d really love to spend the time with you.” and umwe’re going to go do this. And I fought her, fought her, fought her, fought her, got her out there basically the wholefirst day hiking up the mountain. She’s just like trudging with her head down like bitter and angry to be there, youknow, no phone, nothing there. And on the third day, she’s sitting in a camp chair around the fire and she finally

Boundaries and Self-Worth

starts opening up and talking and going like, “Dad, like I’m so glad I’m here right now. like, man, it feels so goodnot to have my phone with me and I can just feel like myself just getting grounded and I’m not as anxious anymore and we’ve had so much fun and I’vereally enjoyed doing this. And I’m sitting here thinking the fight that it took to get you here is now actuallyworth it even though you couldn’t see it for three days. But I had to be the one to hold thestructure and the framing to say, “No, this is good. We need to spend time with each other. We need to we need to go have these shared experiences together.I know it’s awkward. I know you’d rather be with your friends. I know you don’t like being off your phone for 3 days.All of that stuff does matter. And it’s my job as your dad to helpprovide those things even when you may not want those things, you know. You know, and I’m sitting here and I’mwondering if there’s a daughter inside of your daughter that’s stuck being torn between two parents and you’re doing agood job trying to let her make her choices, but she doesn’t even know all of the goodness that you can give to herbecause you’re not I wonder if you could just be not like Beauty and the Beast like you will have dinner with me,but like somewhere between where you’re at and they’re saying, “Hey, like this is uncomfortable. this is hard, but Ilove you and and I have a lot to offer you and we we have to spend time with each other to build a relationship witheach other. Um, and that’s independent of mom.Mhm. Right. Yeah. I don’t know. I don’t mean to be lecturing too much, Adam. Does that make sense?No, it makes sense. Um, it it’s been a bit of a catch-up game forme because I spent nearly nine months just in Texas, right? away and so shewould she would fly down or I would drive up here once a month try to andjust you know be available didn’t really have a place to stay or you know I wouldget maybe an Airbnb and try to do something with her or things like that but you know she has mentioned that youknow it’s weird you were gone for so long didn’t have that you know steady so

Shifting the Conversation

now it’s it’s um trying to get back to that place and I thought you So she was she’s awrestler. So that was a is a big part of her life, right? So which you know I’vewrestled I coached her as a young girl and so coming back to Utah that was a great opportunity for us to connect andcool you know be became of the part of the high school team um as a coach and helpwith the youth team and you know take her to camps and all you know those types of things. So that was that wasgoing well. And then you know we were starting to do things like I you know uhfor her birthday she jumped off on a rope swing swing in Moab. Right. Awesome.I got her to do that. So but you know I think something um this last winter youknow she wanted to go skiing so uh we took her skiingand she had an accident. right? Why she was with me and uh you know fracturedher vertebrae. Oh gosh. Serious accident.So it’s it it kind of put umit it set us backwards I think a little bit. I I

Nice Guy Patterns

uh me personally felt like we were in agood space. We were starting to do things um you know together and now she has this this injury. So now herum her wrestling is at risk like she hasn’t wrestled since for seven months.we’re in recovery. You know, thank goodness that the fracturewasn’t at the spinal cord level, but it still was um pretty significant. Crushedher what her fifth, you know, L5 vertebrae. Um,so she’s, you know, been in a brace and for me it it itput me back to the shame.It put me back to the shame pretty quickly. You blame yourselfand and your ex blamed you, right? Yeah.Not at first though. That all that all came later, right? It was no it was an accident andwhatever. But, you know, it’s we’re we’re you know getting back to abetter place, you know, take her to physical therapy. Uh we have started to introducewrestling again just very just very lightly drilling once a week type of adeal. And there is a path that it’s, you know, that she’ll get back to it, butit’s still in question. Yeah.So for me it it was just like another setback.Um, so I I just want to come back to it’s another setback from connecting because

Firm but Loving

wrestling was so important, right? That’s that’s what I’m hearing. Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, we weremy daughter and I were starting to do things that she wanted to do, right, to experience, you know, we were doingthose things together and Right. But but Adam, also it’s and I Iknow it might not feel this way, but it’s also a massive opportunityum as as a dad with her. Yeah. And and and I think you know whenyour ex comes along and handles it in certain ways this way or that way or whatever it is it is very important thatyou have boundaries with your ex. Um but what I what I’d ask you toconsider is that boundaries are more not more boundariesare internal more than they are external. So when you when you dig in and you youmake these hard lines of, you know, I won’t talk to you or this or that or that’s that’s all fine and that’s whereyou need to be coming out of the marriage that you were in. And but when I say they’re more internal thanexternal, what do you what do you hear me saying? Well, it’s for my peace, right? If Ifeel my emotions getting out of control, right?um my boundary the boundaries are set so that I don’t get out of control right sothat I can continue within my own uhbelief of who I want to be or who I am right well kind of yeah yeah yeah so so likelet me see if I can explain this um and I think a lot of people don’tunderstand this they look at boundaries as just you can’t cross that line right there and if you do I’m going to have aboundary. Um but like if Tyler said to me, “Hey Brandon, you suck.”Um he could say that to me and if if I don’t know where he stops and I begin,then he has the power to define me. I’m I okay like I don’t know what to do. Igot to fix this. I got to I got a lot of fear like right. But if I know where he stops and I begin with him saying he I

Respect vs. Role

suck. Guess who guess who that’s about? Well, it’s about them.Well, it’s about him, you know. It’s about how the world makes sense to them.Yeah. And he’s just giving me feedback that, you know, he’s giving me his perspective of the world. I’m not takingit personal at all. And so because of that then then I have do you see how Ihave a boundary? My boundary is myself. I know who I am. Therefore he can havethese opinions. He can say these things. It’s I’m not going to internalize those things. Um now I might say to him Istill might say hey I I really want to hear you. Um I want to communicate withrespect. So if you’re going to call me names I can’t have this conversation. Um, but I’d be happy to discuss howyou’re feeling. Right? So, so do you see how now I’ I’ve made an external boundary more with him of like I’m notgoing to have this conversation with you like that when you’re saying you suck. Um, but I also am standing on my own twofeet knowing who I am. Do you see what I’m saying, Adam? That’s the I feel like the piece is probablywhat causes a little bit of the just the the pull within me personallyis I don’t offer that that second piece. I’ll hold the boundary. I don’t likethat you’re talking and saying those things to me, so I’m done talking. And you know what that communicates,Adam? And and it’s where you’re at. It communicates. So Tyler and I talk about the swing ofthe pendulum with Mr. nice guys a lot where it’s like I’m a doormat. Like, I’ll take it. Tell me how horrible I am

Reclaiming Fatherhood

to f you. Like, I got the power now. I’m done with you. We’re divorced now. So,like, I can shut this down. And what that communicates to heris one that she still has a lot of power inthe relationship with you. and and two that you’re weak that you’re showing uplike like that the that second part that that I just showed you. That’s thevulnerable part. That’s the part where you’re like, I’m I’m I I got enough strength to deal with this.Do you see what I’m saying? Yep. Um and you you can see it and you can stepinto this, Adam. You can do this. So, so Brandon, what you’re saying though is is that Adam’s boundaries withhis ex aren’t necessarily in the wrong place. It’s the energyin addition to those boundaries that needs to be looked at in terms of and here’s what I’m what I’m hearing is isthat the the communication somehow goes away from being about your daughter to being about old wounds that your ex isstill feeling. And that then you become privy to with your own shame and then and then you never actually getto have the discussion about the daughter and what and how to be a more engaged and active and and equal parent.Mhm. Um, and that’s what Brandon’s trying to say is with the way that the boundaries are, what might be getting in your wayis you don’t get the after part of the boundary to say, “Nevertheless, let’stalk about parenting here.” And if she’s like, “Well, you did this and then at that point you kind of have to follow through on the boundary and be like,dang it, I’ll be I’ll be picking her up for this.” I’m willing to talk about I’m willing to talk about parenting. That’s what we setout to talk about. If if you can’t talk about parenting and we can’t keep it there, then I can’t continue thisconversation. Now, that looks like you’re doing what you’re doing, right? Like that’s that’swhat you’re doing, right, Adam? Well, it’s it’s different for me. It’s been, you know, I want you to look at meas an equal, right? It’s different. Like, I’m There it is. Do

Final Thoughts

I’m looking at it the wrong way. Instead of being like, I want to talk about parenting, you know, our daughter andhow to best do that, it’s you need to respect me as an equal. So, I’m driving more forhow she views me or what my behaviors may or may not be.And so, I’m looking for that as the sign for releasing my boundaries rather than,you know, the goal is to have effective discussion about our daughter. Go ahead, Brandon. Well, you justdescribed something that’s outside of your control. Like her viewing you as an equal.Mhm. Um that do you see how how you don’t know where she stops and you begin,right? You’re you’re needing her to view you a certain that’s her. She gets to decidehow she’s going to view you, right? So I I’m wondering too, Adam, if and thiskind of comes back to some of my original questions inside of this. I actually like where you’re going. There’s something in I I got to I got toadmit this. Like I like the fire I see in you about wanting to be a parent. Hell yeah.Like Yeah. Like there’s too many fathers that are freaking sitting on the sideline in a situation like yours thatjust kind of drift off into the shadows and leave their kids hanging for the rest of their lives. And the fact that you want to be treated as an equalparent, I don’t want you to let go of that at all. I got the fire burning in me because I see it in you and I love it.Now, the trick is is I’m demanding that she treats me like an equal parent. Iwant to know what is Adam doing to treat Adam like an equal parent, right? In the relationship right now,that’s what’s in your control. How are you showing up where you’re treating yourself like you deserve to bean equal parent inside the relationship? Because frankly, that’s what your daughter needs.She needs your presence. She doesn’t need you on the sidelines.Even if you’re worried that And by the way, that whole thing about taking her skiing, like this is really really tough. I’ I’ve told my daughters this amillion times. You know, you’re telling that story. I remember being in Sam’s Club when my daughter was like a littlethree or fouryear-old and we were playing tag in Sam’s Club. My wife was like all mad at me already because we’re running around causing a distraction.And then my daughter runs by me and I try to scoop her up with one arm and she’s like laughing her head off and Igrabbed her too low and I flipped her over and knocked her two front teeth out. And uh and then in the aftermath, whatdoes that feel like as a father? Like, oh my gosh, I just hurt my kid. Ijust, man, I should I should never have done that. I should Guess what? Dads are supposed to play rough withtheir kids. Dads are supposed to take their kids to the ski slopes and let them get obliterated by the heel. Dadsare supposed to wrestle with their kids and get some bumps and bruises once in a while. Now, should I have been a little bit wiser in what I was doing? Yes. Buttoo many guys then are told, “You’re too dangerous. You shouldn’t do those things. You failed as a parent.” When inreality, you were on the ski slopes right where you should have been with your daughter. Amen to that.And uh and kids get obliterated sometimes. And that’s as it should be. Yeah.Um, so, so I would just say it’s it’s a difficult place because you feel shameover seeing their pain and you feel shame over the decisions and maybe you feel responsibility, but that’s whatyou’re supposed to do. Like you be wiser next time, right? But you couldn’t have done anything about that. That’s whatskiing. That’s what happens when you go skiing. Yeah. you know, you you realize you you know, as I look back, I tried to be assafe as possible and encourage, you know, her and just it was a moment, right, that that got away. So,which I’m okay with now, but it’s easier to be that way because she’s not paralyzed,right? But if you if you let your shame eat you alive like that, you will never be able to have the strength to step inthe way we’re talking because that shame’s going to constantly just keep gnawing at you and eating at you. But Adam, there’s also the the other addedelement of your trauma with your son. So, so like that definitely massiveis is playing a part in how you’re feeling about what happened with her. Um, and so for you to stop and justreally care for yourself and give yourself some compassion and and thingslike that is really important around this this situation with your daughter. Yeah.So, yeah. No, it’s been good to get back into, you know, taking her to to physical therapy.Um, you know, being there and involved in in that, you know, you know, twice a week and, you know, hopefully gettingback to to wrestling. But again, it’s I know I I’m going to have to work on, youknow, the the possibility that she may not go back to wrestling, may not be able to do it, right? And what does thatmean? you know, I uh was using I I youknow, wrestling was an easy way for us to connect, right? Because it’s an important part part of who I’ve alwaysbeen and you know, um so there there’s some work that I’m have to do aroundthat. That sucks. I mean, it that just sucks. Like you were bonding. She was getting into itand along comes this injury. Um butbut you know, thank goodness she will be fully functional for for her life,right? Yeah. The injury the injury she didn’t we were able to avoid surgery because it wastouchandgo there for for a while. Um but she does everything that any uteenager would want to do in their life as far as interacting socially and youknow all that type of doesn’t have to walk around with a brace anymore and things like that. So, I Iknow that, you know, God has taken care of her in that way.Yeah.Adam, there’s been a lot of uh there’s been a lot of emotion that’s been underlying. like the undercurrent isthere’s some deep emotion that’s been coming up for the last 40 minutes while we’ve been talking. What can you speakto what that is? Like what what is it? Um I’m just an emotional guy.I know I don’t think I don’t think there’s something I love about you. I don’t think there’s an episodethat I’ve done that doesn’t draw emotion. Yeah. What is it today?Um, it’s just wanting to be a good dad.Yeah.You know, one one thing, if I can just say this, I feel like I know you prettywell, Adam. We’ve been through some things together and umI’ve seen you in some pretty vulnerable states andto be a good dad. You know what? You know what the answer is to that? Do you know how you be a good dad?Do I know the answer? Um yeah, you just be a good dad, right?Just do what you know that you should do as a father. Love your your kidsunconditionally. I love that unconditional love. And I don’t love the should because what youneed to be a good dad is to be you, Adam. Your daughter needs you. And notnot what your ex-wife tells you tells you that you should be in order to show up for her. not what anyone tell likeyou are her dad for a reason and you’re awesome and you’re amazing and she’sblessed to have you specifically you. And so the more you can strengthenyourself, the more you can love yourself, the more you can show up healthfully boundaried in your truths umand not in fear and control um the better dad you are because you’re just showing up as you.You hear what I’m saying? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Could you could I just run through somethingreally quickly? Back to the Dr. Megan Mer stuff on strong fathers, strong daughters. Adam, just ask yourself acouple questions. Fathers are role models. You feel like you’re a role model foryour daughter. Yeah. Father Fathers are important to provideapproval to their growing daughters. They crave positive affirmation. You give your daughter positive affirmation.Yeah. Absolutely. Fathers are pivotal for setting boundaries and providing safety and structure,especially during adolescence. You feel like you’re stepping into that? For the most part, some work needs to bearound done around structure. Okay. Fathers instill values. Do you teach your daughter your values?Okay. Fathers address difficult topics about things like body image andrelationships. Uh yeah, I hope for more opportunity todo that with her. It’s talking to a teenager can be difficult in that way. Yeah, for sure. Absolutely.And I in that. Yeah. I think she trusts her mother more than she does me, but still want to Istill offer it up to her. She can be vulnerable. Yeah. Navigating media, helping yourdaughter know how to navigate media properly. Uh work needs to be done.That is a hard one. That one’s brutal. Non-stop.Yeah. Um, staying involved, never giving up on the relationship. How are you doing with that?Yeah, absolutely. Teaching resilience. Yeah, absolutely.Offering love and guidance. Yep. So, you’re killing it as a father then?Yes, you can say I’m killing it with with a few places. doing I’m not doing too bad of a jobwith a few places of room for improvement and a continual sort of cultivating of those things. You’realready stepping into that role and that’s that’s what matters more thaneven your relationship with your ex. Your relationship with your ex can enhance that if you guys can figure outand I’m talking on both sides how to get your own pride and pain out of the way and make sure that the focus is onraising an awesome daughter. Yeah. So, Adam, I love you, man. I love yourheart. I love your goodness. I feel so grateful that years ago we somehow stumbled into a conversation together.Um, I I love being surrounded by men who take seriously what it means to be afather. And I love that you even were willing to come on the show and talk about it today.I appreciate it. I respect both of you guys so much. Not just respect. I loveeach one of you, you know, and uh hopefully we can do a UFC fight together.Oh, that’d be fun. We got We got to get together. We got to get together on a Saturday night. Maybe I’ll have you up to watch SanHagen take the title when he fights here in a few months. I will probably review. So, you know,actually, I didn’t watch I didn’t watch Porier and Holloway. I’ve watched them fight too many times. I was like, “Oh, that was a great fight, man.I watched that too, you know, seen them. I’ve seen Porier fight live, you know, when he came toSalt Lake and, you know, all that stuff. So, anyways, but it would be a lot of fun to do alive UFC event. Even if we had to go to Vegas, that would be awesome. Yeah. Or or, you know, we just get somewings and hit my basement up, you know. I think you guys should reach out toDana White on behalf of men in your group and see if he’d get us a whole section for the rising suns.I like that idea. There we go. Yeah. Yeah, that’s not a bad idea, actually.Yeah, I’m sure. Just You got him on a speed dial, right, Tyler? Yeah, I’ll just dial I’ll dial up DanaWhite. All you got to do is hit him up on Instagram. Doesn’t he post himself allthe time? I’m sure. Maybe. Yeah. So, all right, Adam. Appreciate you. Really appreciate you.And um any last things you want to say or No, I think uh well, I do not know. Um Ialways appreciate how you you both bring it back to what’s important, right? I think when I got on the call, where I’vebeen has been lost in, you know, the relationship with my ex versus what wasimportant is the relationship with my daughter. Yeah. Right. and and to to look at how I’m setting myboundaries, right, Brandon, you bringing up the fact that I still have tohold the boundary, but in a way where I still offer myself up to to provide a resolution to what we’rereally trying to do, and that’s to, you know, raise a strong daughter. Absolutely.And the two of you, I I’m, you know, your ex, I don’t know her. I’ve never met her, but she’s got goodness in herand she’s a good person. And the two of you can co can co-parent together and do an excellent job at what you just said.It’s possible. So, um, thanks for coming on, Adam. Appreciate you.Um, if this was helpful, please, uh, please let Adam know. Leave it leave her areview and mention him. And um till next time, keep on keeping