Why do I feel Closer to my partner after they disclose something hard?

Introduction

0:01Why do I feel closer to my partner after they disclose something hard?

0:07What’s up, Tyler? Brandon, what’s going on, man? Uh, not much. Just another day, another

0:13Monday. Here we are back to recording again. Back to recording. Did another

0:19week just go by. When did that happen? Another week just went by and I actually listened to uh I think it was our most

0:25recent one on the way into work today. And for for what it’s worth, I don’t know how it affected our listeners, but

0:32uh it made me laugh again. Yeah. Yeah. You might have we might have

0:38lost a few listeners with that one. It’s it’s possible. I was You know what? I was thinking

0:43about the story with the bunny rabbits. I was thinking about like a farm boy listening to it being like, “You guys

0:49are pansies.” Like that’s a Yeah, exactly. Like, hey, that’s like dinner every weekend.

0:56Yeah. And then I was thinking of like, you know, a city kid listening to it like you guys are you guys are like

1:02horrible animal abuser rednecks, you know, like so I guess we were somewhere

1:07in between. Somewhere in the middle of that. Yeah. So, um, but yeah, I I thought, you know,

1:14with that episode, as I listened, I thought, man, we should have done just an episode, like the whole episode on

1:22big stories. That would take We could do a series on

1:27that. Yeah, we could do like a four-part series on big stories. Yeah.

1:35Yeah. Hilarious stuff. Like like we said, he was a legend. He’s a legend. He’s a true

1:41legend. Um I do I’m I’m going to formally invite

1:46Cousin Bigs on the show right now. Yeah, we’d love to have him on. I’d love to have Bigs on. Yeah,

1:52I don’t know what we talk about, you know. We’d probably get into other stories and

1:57let him tell some stories again. Little side note though, Bigs is like

2:02Biggs is one of the best fathers I’ve ever seen. Oh, incredible. Good man. And uh yeah, I’m glad I’m glad

2:11he’s my cousin. So anyways, I could go on and on about, but hey, before we jump into the question

2:16today, Brandon, just a couple of things just for our listeners. And one is we

2:22would love your questions and we’d love to have you come on the show, one or the other. Uh if you’re interested in

2:28getting a hold of us one way or the other, coming on the show or asking a question, therapy.org.

2:33go there and just hit the button, ask a question and uh we would love to be able to talk to you. We love having real

2:39people with real problems who are willing to come on and be in the arena with us. So secondly, we are kind of

2:47getting down into like that really kind of prime time for the signups for Rising Sun, our yearly retreat that we do for

2:55men. It’s going to be September 25th through the 28th. I think we’re we have a few slots left. Um, but they

3:02we’re talking just a little over a month away. Yeah, it’s about a month away. This is when kind of the big bulk of the final

3:08signups kind of start to happen. So, if you’ve been sitting on the fence, we have some spots left. I’m pretty sure

3:14they will be sold out. Uh, we would love to have you come, especially if you’ve been thinking about it, kind of putting

3:21it off. Um, it’s it’s worth your time if it’s already on your heart.

3:27Today’s the day. Sign up. That’s risings.org. Let’s get you there. Bear Lake, Utah.

3:33And we also go up to Bear Lake, Idaho. So, you get a you get two states in one.

3:38Um, it’s beautiful. Uh, if you’ve never been out here to the west, and we go up in

3:45the Rocky Mountains and have a great time. So, come on out.

3:51All right, Brandon, let’s uh let’s jump in here with the question today. And uh

3:56the question is one that we get a lot and it’s one that doesn’t happen for everybody but it’s happens

4:03in it’s a it’s common enough that we get this question quite a bit. Yeah. Um it it is common enough and I

4:12think it makes a lot of sense once you talk about it. Um but it also is

4:17confusing and can cause some problems as well. Um, so,

4:24um, I’ll tell just kind of the general story if you don’t mind, Tyler. Yeah. Yeah. Get painting the picture.

4:30Painting the picture here. So, um, you know, a couple’s bumping along and

4:35there’s issues in the marriage. There’s uh a lack of connection,

4:41the a lack of just safety, trust going on. Um, and the, you know, the one

4:46partner is just feeling like, god, what’s off? What’s going on? and how, you know, while the other partner has

4:52some um skeletons in the closet, there’s some some things going on and um one

4:59thing or another happens. Usually, I hate to say this, but usually it’s they

5:05get caught. Um but sometimes they come out and disclose themselves. Um and then

5:11it’s it’s kind it’s shocking. It’s devastating.

5:17Um, but in a weird way, it’s also kind of uh it makes things make sense. Um, where

5:26it’s like, oh, oh, this is what’s been going on behind the scenes. This is why you’ve been so shady, so distant, so um,

5:35not able to really connect to. And so there’s this all of these feelings um,

5:42and it’s betrayal trauma, right? There’s all of these feelings that come up. um feelings of being hurt, betrayed,

5:49um even confused, anger, but then also like compassion

5:55sometimes for the betrayer. Um confused

6:01and so there’s all and then all of like your own shame comes up of like why what

6:07part did I play in this? Am I not enough? Um so that there’s all of that going on. there’s grief about the

6:14reality of what your relationship actually is. Um, so it’s just a just a

6:20huge mixed pot of all kinds of of emotions going on at the time of

6:27discovery. So that’s kind of the picture, right?

6:32Right. And we’re going to Oh, go ahead. Yeah. Oh, and then and often times then people will come into our office and

6:38they’ll say it they’ll actually acknowledge the confusion of I just found out this thing or my partner just

6:44told me this thing or just had this hard conversation with me and a part of me hates them and the other part of me is

6:50almost like feeling more connected to them. We’ve never been closer like that.

6:56That’s kind of the it’s you know in the last week or two like we’ve never been closer and we’re talking more than we

7:02ever have. We’re having more sex. We’re we’ve never been closer. And so if you

7:09think about what’s happening that it’s it’s interesting what’s happening on the

7:14the the betrayers part, they’ve been carrying these secrets and now it’s this

7:20big relief of like, oh, like I’m not carrying these as secrets anymore. they

7:26never had the courage or they were in so much denial to to actually come out with it until finally it does and then they

7:33get this kind of like relief of oh I don’t have to carry the burden anymore even though in a large part they’ve kind

7:39of dumped that directly on their partner’s shoulders and the partner on the other hand and and people respond

7:46differently so we’re just talking about this type of response um but the partner on the other hand at

7:53at times they can feel like relief like Oh, now I know what’s going on. But then also they there’s this sense of like,

8:01wow, my partner’s now being open and honest about who they are and what’s going on with them. I feel connected to

8:08them. I feel close to them. Um, and then there’s also this going on in the midst

8:15of it all. I’m also scared that they’re going to abandon me or hurt me. So, I want to get closer to them um and bring

8:21them in closer because I’m afraid of that abandonment. Um and so I’m taking

8:29steps toward them. I like that they’re being more open and honest. I’m my heart is feeling more connected. Um whereas

False closeness after betrayal

8:37the the betrayer is like, “Oh, I feel connected too because you still like me

8:43after everything that I’ve done and I talked about all these things that I thought you would hate me for and you

8:48don’t and wow, like you know, but there

8:53there’s some problems with this, Tyler.” Yeah. Well, that’s the challenge to this and this is kind of why we want to break

8:59this down today is there’s at the same time there are things that are possibly

9:04good health and and true principles going on at at in conjunction with

9:10things that are probably not that healthy as well. Yeah. Yeah. And it it can set you up a

9:15little bit. Yeah. So we want to talk a little bit about how to decipher what’s the good health part of it and what’s the what

9:21are the things you want to watch for and pay attention to and make sure that the energy with which you know you start to

9:27approach these kinds of situations is going to help you to move forward rather

9:33than kind of undermine you and set you back. Yeah. Exactly. to just just stop

9:39and and make sure that you’re acting from a place of healing, not from a

9:45place of just knee-jerk reaction. Um, you know, like like you said, Tyler,

9:52there’s some good things going on with this and there’s some problematic things going on.

9:57Um, and and we’re not trying to burst anyone’s bubble, right? Like No, no. This is just things to pay

10:03attention to if you relate to this and you you experience this. Yeah. Like if you’re in that the kind of

10:09I’ll call it that ignorant state of bliss a little bit. Um we’re not trying to burst your bubble but we kind of are.

10:17Well well just because we want we want you to be um healthy and we don’t want

10:24you to set yourself up for more pain down the road. Yeah. Um I I’ll give you an example.

Fear-driven response

10:30this happened. A couple is coming to mind right now where I was working with him and he had other kinds of like

10:37addictions that were in the open, but in the process of working with him, he kind of

10:43disclosed to me that he was also having like extrammarital sexual affairs and other things that she didn’t know about.

10:48And so I kind of worked through it with him and said, “Hey man, like she needs to know this.” And um then I I see him

10:58like two 3 weeks later and he comes in and he’s like I told her

11:04and she was obviously devastated but he’s like I can’t tell you what happened but like our marriage has never been

11:11better. Yeah. Like he’s like she’s like way engaged with me. She’s way interested in me.

11:17He’s like we have sex like crazy now. Like it’s never been better,

11:22you know? I’m like oh okay. um what do you think’s going on there? You know, we had this discussion and then the very

11:27next week she came in by herself and she was just like a shell just like

11:34and she she was just like Tyler like I don’t know what else to do. She’s like I figured that I might as well just become

11:40what he was pursuing and so I’ve just been throwing myself at him and doing anything and everything and whatever

11:47else. And she’s like I just feel like spent and empty but I don’t know what else to do. I’m so because I’m so

11:54afraid. Like I’m so afraid of what’s going to happen to our marriage and our family. I, you know, I don’t even know

12:00if I like I don’t even know if he even wants to stay anymore because he’s got all these other things on his plate. And

12:06it’s like, whoa, okay, we’re we’re totally jumping the gun right now. And in his blindness,

12:11look at the difference. He wants it he so badly wants it to get better because he doesn’t want to pay

12:16the price for his stuff that he just like, man. Yeah. like she just loves

12:22that I’m honest now and like you know our our marriage has never been better and she’s just eating it like just you

12:30know getting buried by it. The the issue with this is the process

Grief is necessary

12:36of grief. Um like in order to be healthy when something happens that is painful,

12:43you need to process grief. So, when you jump to, okay, like we’re just happy,

12:49everything’s good, we’re going to hurry and fix it, everything’s not good, um, things need

12:54to be accepted, things need to be grieved, things there’s a process that

12:59that needs to happen. And part of the initial knee-jerk reaction is is that

13:05almost denial phase of like, okay, like we’re good, you know, just let’s make sure like we don’t want to consequence.

13:13Yeah. Yeah. Um, and the the pro I I really like your story, Tyler, because I’ I’ve

13:19seen it I don’t know how many times. And some sometimes there’s legit like I

13:25call it almost like a honeymoon phase after discovery where it lasts a month or two and then all of the things crash

13:34down. uh the feelings come and they can’t help but come and there’s there’s

13:40feelings of hopelessness and anger and and then there’s feelings of like

13:46like shame about betraying themsself because they got so close to them after

13:53they were betrayed. And so there’s feelings of confusion and all this stuff. They come, the feelings come. You

14:00can’t live in denial forever and be a healthy person. Um,

14:06and so I think it’s like it’s a a real well, I’ll use your word, Tyler,

Honesty vs. self-betrayal

14:12dialectic, where having those feelings of wanting to be close and having compassion for

14:20your partner can be a good thing. And the other side, what’s the other side of that dialectic?

14:26Yeah. Well, yeah. If you go too far with it, then you lose yourself and your own kind of values and self-respect in all

14:32of it too. And it’s like it’s a sometimes that classic case of where a healthy relationship has both good individuality

14:39and good connection with each other. And a lot of times most people will sacrifice their individuality to try to

14:44keep the connection. Right. Right. And that’s and that’s the risk on the other side of it.

14:51But here’s here’s the other thing too and here’s where it gets into like what what is also going on that makes it confusing is if I’ve been living in a

14:58relationship for so long and there’s finally some level of honesty like the the principle of honesty,

15:05integrity, transparency, whatever actually does draw us closer to the

15:12person who’s doing the sharing most of the time, right? Because they’re honest. Yeah. Because it’s a true principle. So,

15:18in a certain sense, a part of me is like, “Oh, I’ve never had like this much honesty before.” Even though I hate what

15:23I just heard, that that honesty feels better than being in the dark or being confused or feeling like I’m hitting a

15:30wall. And so, I does have a tendency to in some cases want me to lean in a

15:35little bit more because I’m finally getting something that I didn’t even know I really needed or wanted until now. Um but but then then it also gets

15:42paired up with the fear, the anxiety, the whatever else, the denial, and then

15:48that’s where it gets really confusing, right? Um what are the

15:54outcomes of this, Tyler? So like what are some things that that

15:59happen when something like this takes place in to the relationship or to the

16:06individuals? Both. Yeah. Well, I think there’s there’s a couple things that that tend to happen.

Reward for honesty?

16:12One is that if you can, this is why we’re having this episode today is if you can take the principle of integrity

16:18and honesty, transparency, whatever, taking ownership, accountability

16:23as as healthy principles towards what we’d call a wholehearted life, then that

16:30discussion can be had at the same time as and I’m not feeling good enough to

16:36lean in in these other ways because of this, this, this, and this. Right. Right. Right. So, you know, so, so

16:42that’s the hard part because like on the other side of it, you know, a lot of times the one who’s been keeping the secrets or doing the hiding or lying

16:48when they finally get to be honest, they finally have this moment of honesty, whether it’s forced or not, they expect

16:54to be like rewarded for it. Like, hey, look, I’m This is what honesty gets me.

16:59Now, I’ve got a partner who’s like upset at me and frustrated, whatever. So, why would why should I be honest? It was better if I wasn’t honest. you know,

17:06they almost like try to manipulate their partner into not having any other feelings other than like, “Oh, thank you for being honest. That makes me feel so

17:12much better.” Um, so but but what it does is it kind of like

17:19it it’ll end up pulling you together only to then kind of potentially be

17:25built on a false kind of foundation. And then it’ll end up leading to more resentments and more distance and

17:33feelings of like dis self-d disrespect. It does it does long-term damage to the

17:39relationship. Yeah. It damages the foundation even more of the relationship. The honesty doesn’t

17:48No, the honesty is finally the thing that needed to be there all along. But the the desperation, the the the

17:55attachment without the reparation causes fractures in the relationship

Skipping real healing

18:02that that can do a lot of damage. Um, you know, if I if I show up, and I say

18:09I, if any of us in a relationship show up um just desperate to be loved and

18:15just grateful for scraps that my partner gives me, and settling for those things

18:20and then eventually realizing that I’m settling for those things and that’s all that I’m getting,

18:26um, eventually it’s going to really wear on me. Um the you need to have space for

18:33the grieving to be whole and complete, right? It’s like that it’s like that story from childhood, you know, probably

18:38heard it a thousand times in church talks or whatever of the guy who left his like um he was out splitting wood

18:46and he left his uh his wedge that used he used to split it in the crook of a

18:51tree and forgot about it and then that tree just kind of grew in around it and continued to grow. And then 20, 30

18:57years later, a windstorm comes along and what’s the thing that breaks first?

19:03The place the place where the wedge was left even though the tree had grown around it and it shatters and fractures the whole tree. And and I think a lot of

19:10times, Brandon, we see this in the recovery process where in an effort to

19:15try to do right by being forgiving, by leaning in, by trying to make quick

19:20reparations, we sometimes leave the processing that is necessary for a whole and complete

19:26healing behind. And then it’s like years later, months or years later, all of a

19:32sudden, you’ve got these resentments that you can’t quite get your hands around or your fingers on. um and

Wedge in the tree analogy

19:38they’re they’re kind of pulling you apart or you know you you you feel just this wall in the relationship that you

19:44can’t quite get past but it’s because you put a governor on yourself to make sure you’re never going to get hurt

19:49again and uh that kind of stuff. The the reality is is you can’t jump past the pain for healing. You you just

19:57can’t. And I wish there was a way. Um, I think about, you know, this is kind of a

20:03different uh like it’s part of this process, but

20:08how often have you seen where discovery happens and the the betrayers like, “Oh,

20:14I I have no urge now to to act out. Like, I’ve done,

20:20holy cow, like it’s fixed. I’m healed. My partner knows about this and they

20:26still love me and now I have no desire. Have you ever seen that just work for

20:32long term, Tyler? on the really really rare occasion somebody has kind of like

20:38a you know salt to change kind of moment

20:43you know but but even in those moments most people are still going to keep their human drives and desires and

20:50they’ll still experience future you know struggles temptations recovery needs to happen

20:56there needs to be there needs to be a commitment to the process of the principles of recovery

“I’m healed” thinking

21:01yeah and that’s That’s how that happens is you work through it one thing at a time and get get to the root of why that

21:09addiction is there. Um, and then start to actually heal on those deep levels

21:15long term. Um, not just get caught. Oh, oops. Now I’m good. Um, everything’s

21:22better. It’s actually really invalidating for a partner who’s been betrayed to have the other partner come

21:29back a day or a week or a month later and always be like, “And it’s still gone. Like, I’m I’m healed. I’m all

21:35better.” And they’re like, “So, you kept all those secrets for that long and now all of a sudden it’s just

21:41snap fingers. It’s all good.” I don’t really I don’t know if I can fully trust that. Right.

21:46Right. Like so, so if you’ve had that massive change of heart, then that would naturally come with a way of being and a

21:53certain set of commitments to certain kinds of principles that would naturally go along with that change of heart. Right.

21:59Right. Right. And it it feels invalidating if it’s like, yeah, it’s all good now. And and too many couples get stuck on that

22:04question of are you still acting out? And it’s like, nope, I haven’t even had a drive or desire, so I’m all better now. And it’s like, well, yeah. Um, how

22:12many people do you know, Brandon, who have come in like that and that goes for two or three months and then all of a sudden they come in like four or five

22:18months later, six months later and they’re like, “Guys, I’m really struggling.” Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Almost every time.

Three types of recovery

22:25The You know, I think of the the three recoveries, you know, the betrayer, betrayed, and then the relationship. And

22:33I’ve actually seen it where all all three in some way try to try to jump ahead and not go through recovery and be

22:41okay. Um like I think of a a client a couple I was working with a long time ago. Um very

22:49uh very into their religion, very churchy, right? And so when

22:58uh and but and yet he was out just acting out in all kinds of ways um on

23:04business trips. So he’d live a second life. He’d be this very churchy guy, you

23:10know, at home and he’d live his second life on the road. And um

23:18you know they discovery happened. He got caught and

23:25she went to I love Jesus. Jesus tells me to forgive. I forgive him. I forgive. I’m

Forgiveness vs. forced forgiveness

23:34everything’s okay. Everything’s fine. Right now, forgiveness is a good

23:40principle, right, Tyler? Amen. Forgiveness is the one that takes the longest for most partners.

23:46Yeah. And Jesus tells her to forgive. So, snap of the fingers, boom, she forget. She forgave him.

23:51Yeah. and everything was fine. Um, except

23:58Yeah. except that except that there’s a there’s kind of the action of forgiving

24:04which is something that a lot of people don’t want to take that’s actually really valuable. And then there’s the

24:10heart of forgiving that goes along with the action. And when those two are paired together, that’s when forgiveness

24:16starts to become kind of whole and complete. Um, but a lot of times, and this is something that I think uh that I

24:24think really does a disservice to some of our clients sometimes is the principle of forgiveness is absolutely

24:30spot-on. It’s part of the healing journey. It’s part of the process. It’s a necessary, but but too many people

24:39feel almost guilted into forgiving and not allowing themselves to recognize that it’s okay to be in the process of

24:46working on forgiveness. Yeah. And uh and then what it does is in in

24:51essence is it’s that wedge that gets thrown in the tree and then we’re I’m back to like, yep, we’re all better now. And and because I’ve forgiven him,

24:58I it also means that I need to now lean all the way in the way that I

25:05should the way that I should like a good a good partner. And and in doing so,

25:11that’s where the self- betrayal starts to happen because it’s like I’m I’ve I’m in the compulsion of needing to be a

Cost of self-betrayal

25:18good person by forgiving, but my heart and my spirit isn’t quite fully there yet. And now I’m betraying where I’m

25:24currently at. Exactly. And then down the road that tree splits.

25:29Yeah. Um, you know, so with the betrayer, the betrayed, or the

25:36relationship, all three of those, um, people don’t want to see the painful

25:41parts of recovery, and they want to get to the the good stuff. And I’m all about

25:47the good stuff, but if it’s if it’s uh fake, if it’s like not real recovery, then

25:55it’s not it’s it’s going to I I love your analogy, Tyler. It’s going to split. It’s not going to work long term.

26:03Yeah. So, Lana, let’s talk for just a few minutes about that then. Like, what does what does the process then look

Recovery is messy

26:09like where you’re trying to fuse the gratitude for the honesty and the feelings that come with being treated

26:15honestly? Finally, the the desire and need to want to forgive

26:22while also trying to keep your own shape or like uh stay true to yourself in all

26:27of that. The the thing about it is Tyler is there’s no um perfect

26:35way or example of how the process of healing takes place. So like I could

26:42give you I could give you what it would look like if I was like this perfect person that that did it just right. Um

26:50but the reality is is something as painful as betrayal brings up

26:55everything. It brings up all of your own trauma, all of your own shame, um all of

27:01your own stuff. So, what’s the process? The process is a

27:06little bit messy. The process is not linear. Um it’s, you know, you two steps

27:13forward and one step back. Um and if you don’t allow for that messiness and that

27:20struggle through that process, then you’re missing out on some of the most important things. Um, so if I were like

27:28a ve like I’ll give you a ridiculous example because this isn’t really reality, but let’s say I got betrayed

27:37and I did not take it personal. Again, remember this is a ridiculous

27:42example. I did not take it personal at all, right? Um, I also realized that

27:50they were probably doing the best that they possibly could. um with what they were working with. I

27:57had compassion for them. Um I didn’t caretake. I didn’t act out of fear. So I

28:03didn’t I didn’t get closer to them because I am trying to make sure they

28:09don’t hurt me. Um I acted out of love, power, healthy boundaries, didn’t take

28:16it personal. Um and uh had compassion for them. That’s wonderful. And then and

28:23then and then I would let the process unfold as I sit in that space. That’s

28:28that’s wonderful. That’s not reality. But those principles

28:34I think the principles and you said the same two or three principles like three or four times there in different ways.

28:39But basically it was I need to get to a spot where I’m not taking it personally. I’m looking inward at the things that I

28:45need for myself and I’m not overattached. Right. and moving towards compassion for the other person

28:51which people listening right now have been betrayed or get sick to their stomach. Some people just threw up in their mouth right now hearing that

28:57which they should because they need to go through that process of healing, right? But those are those are true principles and I and I would say to that

29:03like we think of it like you said Brandon so often in such a linear way like I do this then I do this then I do

29:09this then I do this and then I’m healing then I’m healed. Right. Right. And and I I like the approach

Grounding after betrayal

29:15more of like trying to realize that this isn’t linear and that there’s going to

29:20be multiple things going on at multi at the same time. So giving yourself the

29:25first thing that I would suggest is is that you actually do whatever you can right after right after the betrayal. Do

29:31whatever you can to get grounded in terms of like physically time place

29:37present moment grounded and emotionally what do I need to do to have my head and my heart overlapping each other and

29:43what’s going on right now. So that’s a lot of self-care. That’s a lot of physical grounding. That’s a lot of like

29:51stuff before I make any other decisions just to make sure that I’m operating from the best place possible given the

29:57circumstance. And then I can start looking at principles and how they overlap where there’s this process of

30:03forgiveness, there’s this gratitude for the honesty, there’s this hurt and grief that I’m going to be going through and

30:09I’m going to go and create space for all of that to happen at the same time. So, I can now go to my partner and I can say

30:16something like, you know what? I am absolutely devastated by this. I don’t

30:21even know what to do yet. I don’t even know what decisions I can make right now. I feel gutted by this. I am

30:27grateful that it’s in the open. And for whatever it’s worth, I’m grateful for the honesty in a weird way, even though

30:33I’ve now got a bunch of work to do. And I don’t necessarily want to be overly close to you physically right now until

30:39I can get my feet planted. Right? That would be more of like, okay,

30:44now I have space to go and start figuring this out rather than just being sucked back into it over and over again.

30:50But I guess what one of the principles you’re talking about here and and what I was saying too is

Turn inward first

30:56in those hard moments of a lot of emotions, turn inward, not outward

31:02toward your partner um for your oaness and your healing. And if you can do that

31:09and love yourself first and process these emotions within yourself and get your support system going and your

31:15self-care and all of this good stuff going first and it’s about you and your

31:21healing first. That’s good. I I’d say that’s for sure

Gratitude and grief

31:26one thing that I’m saying. And the other the other part that I’m saying is try to step out of an all or nothing

31:33kind of approach or perspective and allow yourself to be grateful for X, Y,

31:38and Z and not okay in each moment A, B, and C. And so now I can be with my

31:44partner and I can have this hard conversation from the sense of like

31:49these are the things that I appreciate about what’s going on right now and these are the things that still need attention rather than it needing to be

31:55all or nothing because so many people go all the way all or nothing one way or the other. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I like how you

32:02describe that. That’s hard to describe because you’re talking about the the process, the the middle, the I’m I’m

32:10okay with this, I’m not okay with that. But for somebody to get that clear with that, Tyler, they need to be they need

32:17to trust themsself and be grounded themsel like you say, just just like really know who they are so that they

32:24can be clear with what works for them and what doesn’t. That’s right. Um, we make this sound so like

32:31confusing. Yeah. Yeah. We might have made it more

32:36confusing than helpful today, Brandon. Yeah. I, you know, I I I want to say if

32:41you’re in that stage where maybe you’re feeling closer to your partner and it

32:47feels good and you’re listening to us and it’s it’s like h like deep down I

32:53know we’re kind of there. Um, I I I just would ask you to stop and just just pump

33:01the brake a little bit and just get really honest with yourself about about what works for you and what doesn’t. Um,

33:08and get and when you pump the brakes, look for true principles that would either say, “Hey, this connection that I’m feeling is legit because there is

33:15humility, accountability, openness, transparency now versus I’m compelled to

33:21do it because I need to be forgiving or I can’t stand the thought of losing this person or whatever else. I’m operating from fear.” Yeah. It’s it’s it’s so

33:28confusing because it does feel good. I like, okay, I feel connected now and this feels good and I like this. But if

33:36it feels good because there’s fear driving it behind it of I’m I’m afraid that that you’re not going to choose me,

33:43then those feeling those good feelings are driving you toward that wedge that Tyler’s talking about. Um, so it’s this

33:51is really hard to get honest with yourself with this. It’s really hard to pump the brakes and be like, “Okay, hang

33:56on here. What is what is really driving my behaviors here? Am I focusing inward right now?

34:02Strengthening myself, going through the grieving process, going through the recovery process with betrayal so that

34:08we can actually take this horrific thing that’s happened and strengthen the

34:13foundation of us and our relationship as a result versus

34:19crack the foundation further because we’re just acting from a place of fear.

34:25That’s right, Tyler. It’s been a good talk. Yeah, hopefully it’s helpful for people

34:31who find themselves in that position. Again, it’s not bad if you’re feeling connected. We want that. We just want to

34:36make sure the connection is based off of solid, you know, solid ground.

34:42So, thank you for being with us today. We love having you guys with us. We love your questions. We love your support.

34:50Um, and if this is meaningful to you or to someone that you know, please share it with them. And until next time, keep

34:56on keeping on.