How do I find healthy ways to know that I am enough if I don’t have physical intimacy?

Intro

0:11How do I find healthy ways to know I’m enough if I don’t have physical intimacy?

0:18What’s going on you guys? Tyler, your wandering therapist here. I’m flying solo again without Brandon today. Uh, as

0:25as I mentioned in our last episode, Brandon is being a family man right now

0:31and getting some downtime. He took his whole family to uh a beautiful place down in southern Utah called Lake

0:37Powell. Um, and it’s just a beautiful, amazing place, great place to recharge and I hope he’s having a lot of fun

0:44there and and getting a lot of good time with his family. So, I’m excited to be here with you guys today and it’s

0:50probably my turn to cover a little bit anyway. I think he’s covered me a little bit in the past few weeks. Anyway, so um

0:57just a couple of things uh mentioned really quickly. We’re getting really close to the Rising Sun retreat. Really

1:03excited about it. September 25th through the 28th in Bear Lake, Utah. I just took a drive up there this weekend to scope

1:11out a few things that we want to try to be doing with some of the activities. And the leaves are already starting to turn. So, it’s going to be like

1:17beautiful, amazing fall colors. And uh we’ve got a really good group of men

1:22that are already coming. We have just a few slots left. So if you’re interested, rising sun.org. We would love to have

1:28you. It’s like the hallmark thing that Brandon and I do. You will not regret it if you decide to pull the trigger and

1:35come. And if you feel something burning inside of you and you’ve been holding back on it, uh I’d encourage you to step

1:41in with that courage and come join us and see what it’s about. So secondly, we’re going to have another caller

1:47today, which I’m really excited about. We love having callers. Therapyros.com.

1:53Go there. If you have any questions, anything you want to bring up about your own journey, your own recovery, whether

1:58you’re a couple, a single, divorced, together, we would love to be able to field your

2:03questions and have a discussion because you are the secret ingredient to this show. So, um, please come join us. We’d

2:11love to have you. You sign up over there and you’ll just get a slot on a time slot and it’ll you’ll come on and record

Need for touch

2:16with us. So, we’d love to have you. Um, we have a return caller today. He’s been

2:24with us a few times now. I don’t we haven’t scared him away yet. So, um,

2:30he’s been known as Buzz and now he’s also known as Micah. He’s, uh, he’s done both. But, uh, Micah, welcome to the

2:36show. It’s good to see you again, man. Congratulator, Tyler. Yeah. Yeah, man. Um,

2:43tell us a little bit about what your question is and, uh, and what we can do to help. Yeah. Awesome. Um, first thing

2:49I’d like to just shout out to your last caller. Um, that takes a lot of courage

2:55and I I salute her for that and it that was heavy to listen to because

3:00as as a former addict or addict in recovery, um, I could put myself in her

3:06husband’s shoes in so many places in my past and I just I just want to give

3:12heartfelt shout out that that that took some courage and I appreciate that. That’s awesome, man. Thanks, Michael.

3:17So, yeah. So, what what I’d like to ask today is um

3:22I have a history leading back to my teen years of socially

3:28being kind of second second place. I was never the the popular guy in my teen

3:33years. And that’s um so even even with relationships, I

3:38took the leftovers because we were closed religious community. And so all the all the pretty cute girls, the

3:45popular girls were, you know, they all the popular guys had them and whoever was left in our church, you know, you

3:52might get one of them to to look your way. And then um

3:58when I was 21, I was engaged to be married to a lady and um two days before

4:03the wedding, she gave me the ring back while I was at my bachelor party. And um

4:08so ever since then I that was another sign to me, symbol to

4:13me that I wasn’t good enough for somebody once again. And um I went seven

4:20years without dating until I dated my wife I’m with now because I didn’t didn’t want couldn’t take the risk of

4:26not being good enough for somebody else being no thank you. This isn’t going to work. I just couldn’t couldn’t do that

4:32again. And then through my addiction years and everything, my wife,

4:37I I can’t fathom how she felt through this time of her feeling like she was

4:43not good enough. I I just can’t comprehend wrap my mind around the hurt that I put her through.

4:49Um but now we’ve been for just a little over four years now in in an in-house

4:55separation because I had relapsed and um

5:00she needed a space and that space is still ongoing and I know that um

5:10my being good enough, my being worthy does not hinge on my

5:16physical intimacy is But it’s still I can’t because of my conservative upbringing. That was something that you

5:22saved for when you said I do. You didn’t we didn’t even have physical contact during courtship.

5:28So physical contact, physical intimacy was because a girl would say I do to you

5:34and spend the rest of your life was like the the stamp of being good enough.

5:41And now that there is no physical intimacy in the relationship, I

Linking worth to intimacy

5:47struggle with say, “Yeah, this isn’t I’m not good enough anymore.” Even though I

5:52know I’m a good man and God approves me, accepts me, but it’s still

6:01I don’t know way to say except you you’ve seen these fundraiser posters. It looks like a thermometer. And that we’ve

6:07raised this much money so far and so far and I have these way points, these milestones. And um to me, it’s kind of

6:13been like the acceptance um thermometer of, you know, you’re this

6:19good, you’re this good, and you’re this accepted. And when you say I do, kind of it peaks out and I’m I’m worthy of of

6:27all acceptance, including physical intimacy and sexual relationship.

6:33Uh because saying I do implies that you’re good enough for all of that. And now that I’ve been there, done that, had

6:40had beautiful children, which I’ve love dearly with this woman. Um I’m good

6:47enough to pay her bills, to keep the house, to do my share of the domestic, you know, responsibilities,

6:54do all these things, but I’m not good enough with physical intimacy. And I really, really, really struggle with

7:00this. finding ways to tell myself, “Yeah, you are good enough. You are you’re acceptable

7:06without without this component in the relationship.” And I just I know it’s not healthy. And I throw that back on

7:12her. And I I don’t want to because what she, you know, she’s her her own

7:18recovery is is got to be so hard for her. I I can’t imagine putting myself in her shoes, but I I’ve got to get some

7:25help with this. So, yeah. Go. Gotcha. So,

7:32so if I’m hearing this right, and it’s there’s probably a lot more to the story than what you just shared with us,

7:37Micah. Um, there’s been a hole inside your heart

7:44about not measuring up or being good enough almost maybe since almost you can

7:50remember. Yeah. And in the process of trying to fill that hole, whether it’s been

7:56through ways that you were taught about physical and sexual intimacy or ways that you

8:03socialized yourself through whatever addiction, pornography, or whatever else. Um, the way you were taught about

8:09sexuality, maybe there was some lifetime experiences. There’s obviously a previous engagement and then also a

8:16current marriage that go into this that factor all into it. Um,

8:21if I’m hearing you right, the message that you’ve been living as if it’s true is that the ultimate stamp of approval

8:29is when a woman will engage with me physically or sexually. Yes.

8:34Yeah. Okay. And we can maybe even look back even just a little bit of what what you said and and almost see the dots

8:41maybe wanting to try to start to connect as to how that story could get could

8:46become that way. Right. Okay. Um, I don’t think it’s actually out of

8:52the ordinary. I think your question is actually pretty common. Like if I was to, if this wasn’t such a

8:59vulnerable topic to talk about and I I was to throw this out to our whole audience and say, “How many of you people relate to this right now?” I

9:06would bet you you would get a whole bunch of people saying, “I’ve totally felt that way, too, but never even put

9:11words to it before.” So, I I don’t think you’re out of the ordinary, and I think this is actually a

9:17pretty normal kind of issue to wrestle with, maybe more so than you think it

Tyler’s story with porn

9:22is. So, I’m glad you’re here and willing to to talk a little bit about it today.

9:28Um, there’s a couple couple of thoughts that I have. There’s like three

9:33different paths in my brain that I’d like to go down with you, and I don’t know if we’ll get to all three or not. So, we’ll just we’ll go with one, and

9:39then we’ll go with another, and we’ll go with another if we get to it all. All right. So the first one is

9:47is that um we as human beings on a certain level

9:54were kind of wired for attachment, connection, even physical touch,

9:59right? So, I mean I mean we’ve talked about this on the podcast before, but the Romania orphanage studies kind of

10:06illustrate this in a pretty stark way that you know these infants who were

10:12staying in this orphanage, they’d get enough food, warmth, shelter, but what they but they were having massive

10:18emotional problems and some of them were even just dying out of the blue. And what they found is that it was the

10:23physical touch element that was actually a necessary piece for these children as they were trying to develop and have

10:29their brains grow. and and basically have survival. So on a certain level, what you’re

10:35feeling is a normal feeling to have that we all want to have some level of kind

10:41of physical connection with people, right? That’s why like when somebody dies and there’s no good answer, a hug

10:48is the best thing you can give somebody, right? So you have that already going on

10:54inside of you. The question is is how did that kind of

11:00a physical need, human need get wrapped up into

11:07the storyline that you either are or are not acceptable or valuable or important

11:14or lovable if you don’t have that especially physical touch or or sexual intimacy

11:20with a woman. Where do you think that those if you could you just think about that for a

11:26second? Where do you think those dots connect even further in your life?

11:44I I really don’t want to say that. You probably see deeper into it than I do. Okay. Okay. Let me let me just give

11:50maybe a personal example for a second. You can see if any of this rings a bell for you. This is something that I’ve

11:56thought about for myself. Um my first exposure to pornography was

12:04probably around age probably around 12 or 13. Um and something inside of me

12:10that day sort of kind of just like came alive. I didn’t even know it was like I didn’t really know what it was, but it

12:16came alive. And then over the course of like my teen years, it went from like curiosity

12:23and then it turned into like entertainment and then it went from entertainment to like emotional coping.

12:30And I started to realize that this thing did something to me that like really

12:35made me feel it was almost like medicine. Mhm. And um I had a few traumatic events

12:42happen in the process of this kind of sexuality thing developing inside of me.

12:48And I believe that my pursuit of those sexual things eventually kind of came to

12:53an intersection with a way to cope with my needs emotionally. And that’s where

12:58it started to formulate like different beliefs about myself, my sexuality,

Cycle of shame

13:04everything else. And and eventually what it came to is is that this was such a

13:09powerful solution for so many things in my life that it kind of made sense that

13:15maybe it could also fill the hole inside of me that maybe I wasn’t enough, you know, and so I could get this little

13:22bit of respit every time I’d go and look at porn or every time I’d go and have some kind of an interaction or even all

13:28the way into my marriage. It became the place where I was trying to extract an

13:33answer from my wife that I was good enough rather than offering my good

13:39enoughness to her and letting us share in that together. Mhm.

13:44Um, but it but it kind of developed that way and I didn’t even know it was developing that way because of how

13:50slowly it developed through the combination of being a teenage boy

13:56leaning into having to learn about sexuality with all of the things that I was taught, both healthy and not healthy, plus the emotional problems

14:03that I was trying to solve. And when those two things intersected, it became like the most powerful medicine there

14:09was. So, it made sense that that would maybe be my answer to these bigger, deeper questions.

14:14Um does that make sense? Yeah, I definitely definitely definitely because I look back the majority the

14:21vast majority of my um addiction process, you know, the events during my

14:27addiction um was because I felt like I was good

14:32enough for somebody. I was acceptable to somebody. Even if it was in my own mind, in my imagination,

14:39I was good enough for somebody in that moment. And

14:45of course afterwards you feel like a failure because you just failed yourself and your values again and you’re doubly

14:50not good enough. And yeah, yeah, that’s the twisted part of the brain and how it works is because we

14:56think we can take ourselves there and feel like we’re getting that answer, but then in the aftermath, we kind of come

15:01to our senses again and go like, uh, like, you know, I heard I heard another doctor, he called that like that moment

15:08right after you act out, like you get wrapped up in all that denial and everything and then right after you act out, he called it postnut clarity. And

15:15all of a sudden, you kind of like, you know, you kind of like come to your senses and you’re like, “Oh my gosh,

15:20like what did I just do? I just betrayed my values. I didn’t get my answer. I’m still empty. It’s still not the

15:26solution.” Even though it sure felt like it was promising me that’s what it was going to be, right? And you think about

15:31that. You think about that process and then taking that into a relationship where now there’s pressure on the

15:36relationship all the time. Think about the pressure your wife must have felt over the years without even knowing what

15:42was really going on to be the answer. Oh yeah. And then never have it quite satisfy or

15:48be the answer. Oh, I I I I can’t imagine.

15:53Yeah. Yeah. The you know the hurt is just I can’t I can’t.

16:01Right. Yeah. And and again I’m not saying that to make you feel bad about No. No. Totally. I can I can sit in it.

16:07That’s fine. No, but I’m saying that this is a pattern that’s really common in marriages and and a lot of marriages

16:14don’t even realize that this is happening where I I I have this happen so often where a husband comes into my office and he’s like, “All we need is

16:20just more sex because that means that then we’re then I feel safe and I feel good enough and I feel this and I feel

16:25that and I’m looking at the wife and she’s going like it feels like a bottomless pit. like I I

16:33don’t have any more to give. And it’s it’s never gonna it’s never going to solve the answer to his value. And then

16:39what happens is that then she feels worn out. She feels like a failure herself. She feels like all these other things

16:46start to happen. There begins to be resentment. And then the marriage starts to go further and further distant.

Pressure in relationships

16:52And it’s not that the physical intimacy is the answer. It’s the way the physical intimacy is being treated in the

16:59relationship that’s going to be there an enhancement or it’s going to be something that that becomes something

17:04that starts to split the couple further and further apart. Right? So, so your question then is is

17:13how do I’m starting to recognize this inside myself and you’d be probably betraying yourself

17:20if you’re like I want to kill off all need for physical touch because that’s

17:25probably not authentic to you but you do want to change how you view

17:30physical touch as it relates to your value right and then you said I think you said

17:36you also were wondering how do I pursue to building my sense of self or my own

17:42value when this physical part isn’t happening in my life right now

17:47physical sexual part how how do I how do I be basically in a nutshell I know put is how do I how am I

17:54good enough for myself without without this component how do I know I’m good enough

18:01how can I build that yeah good this is a good question so there and I think there’s like probably

18:07a few different things that can work in conjunction to help with this overall

18:12process. So the first question is

18:18how did you come to know you weren’t enough?

18:27I mean the the rejection the the the rejection that you know it’s

18:34been four years four years now of no physical intimacy in in the relationship

18:40and um but you knew you weren’t enough before that. Well,

18:46you believed that. Yeah, that’s that’s that’s true. But um

18:52okay, let’s go further back than this then. Um,

19:01I don’t really know when that started. Probably sometime in in in my

19:08mid- teens, you know, when the the popular, you know, whenever I

19:13started noticing girls and, you know, you all you all we all go through that moment where we wake up one day and we

19:20like, I didn’t see her that way before. That was the first time I’ve ever noticed her. And all of a sudden you, you know, girls start looking pretty.

19:27And then whenever the girls start saying who to you and you’re like, well, what’s wrong with me? And you start asking

19:33yourself those questions. And yeah, and it just kind of it seems like my whole life has been a stream of, well,

19:41she’s pretty into you, you know. And then after remember after after the first relationship fell apart and then

19:48everybody’s attitude was like well she had to have left you for some reason you know you’re so I was kind of like

19:53untouchable nobody and then I just you know nobody would even have anything to

19:59do with me as far as so I built my own

20:07imaginary relationships through photography and because you know

20:12Yeah. So you can make yourself as acceptable as you wanted. You didn’t have to be vulnerable and you

20:17didn’t get rejected, right? Yeah. Yeah, that’s right. Okay. So, so stick with me on this for just a second.

20:23That answers your question. It does. It does. Yeah. I want to go a little further with it for a second with you if it’s okay.

20:29Sure. Um, so let’s say you’re a young teenager. You start kind of noticing that there’s

Roots in rejection

20:36something really intriguing about these beautiful girls that are around you. At the same time, you referenced earlier

20:41that you’re feeling like you’re in a second tier with the other boys already, like you don’t already fit in with the

20:47other boys. Like you you started getting rejected by the boys even before you did the girls,

20:52right? Um a little a little background on that is um

20:58our group was part of a church from another church that the pastor said, “I

21:04feel I’ve led you this congregation as far as I can. You guys can decide where

21:09you want to go from here, but I personally I’m going to go attend this church in another state. And

21:16approximately half the church literally sold everything they had and went with it. So, this church and where I’m at in

21:24Arkansas now, um the the Missouri congregation integrated with the Arkansas congregation

21:31and we were like part of we even even growing up all through we were always

21:37known as part of the Missouri group and it never integrated. we got here and all the

21:43kids, the boys that grew up in this in this circle in this congregation, they just became a tighter click and we just

21:51kind of the ones who hung around on the periphery of it trying to be accepted and popular and if you’re cool enough,

21:59you could get conditional acceptance. But yeah. Yeah. Okay. I never I never hit that.

22:06Yeah. Okay, man. And I’m looking at the look in your face and I can see that even as you tell the story, there’s a

22:11little younger teenage part of you that’s reliving that stuff and feeling some of that pain of rejection.

22:18Yeah. Yeah. It’s still there. It’s buried inside of you. I can see it coming in your eyes right now.

22:24Yeah. Right. Yeah. Um here’s the point, Micah. And man, I’m getting emotional thinking

22:30about this for you like and thinking of all the other little boys that probably have had something similar. You didn’t

22:37know it at the time. You didn’t know it at the time, but you were having what’s called an emotionally corrective

22:43experience, but it wasn’t very corrective. You were having an emotionally powerful experience that was telling you

22:51that you didn’t belong, that you didn’t measure up, that you

22:56were never quite going to fit in, that you could run the peripheral, run the periphery, but you uh but you’re never

23:03actually really going to measure up and be good enough. And you didn’t even know that that

23:10belief was being planted in your brain. You just felt it, right? And you had multiple experiences

23:16with that little little moments time and time and time and time again of here’s

23:22where you fall in the pecking order of life and because of this is where you fall. This is what it must mean about

23:27you that you’re not good enough. Right? So that young teenage boy now takes that

23:34belief and he carries it onto the next experience and the next experience and the next experience and as he grows he

23:41starts trying to pursue women because he was designed to do that. And then of

23:47course, one second. I’m trying to turn my

23:55I just lost your microphone.

24:05Can you hear me right now? Yeah, I can hear you. Am I back? Yeah, we’re back. We got you back. Okay, got you.

24:12So, I just turned my car on for a second and it went to the hands-free function. Oh, gotcha.

24:18That’s the way it works. You’re in the You’re in the car office today. That’s how it works.

24:24Um, yeah. So, so then you have this experience and they stack on top of each

24:30other and every experience then starts to reinforce itself. So now the brain has already been primed from an

24:36emotional set of from a set of emotionally charged experiences that reinforces

24:43you’ll never be enough. You’ll never measure up. Like you can see it, but you can’t quite have it. You’re just close

24:51enough, but you’re not quite there. In essence, you’ve been weighed, you’ve been measured, you’ve been found

24:57wanting, but you’re kind of like also close enough that it feels like it’s worth

25:02trying from time to time. It’s like I I don’t know if do you uh I’m I’m really big into like the outdoors and hunting

25:10and like Absolutely. Yeah. You know how do you know how elk work during the the In fact, right now

Healing the younger self

25:16this time of year is the rut season. Oh yeah. Yeah. It’s like there’s all these bulls

25:22show up and you get like the kind of the bulls that are pretty they’re they’re like a couple years in. They’re just

25:28starting to come into their maturity and they think they’re pretty tough and they roll in and they find all the cows

25:33first. But the cows aren’t quite ready to be in heat, but they they run the herd for a while until the big the

25:40bigger bulls show up and then the bigger bulls just like kick their butts. And then for the next like three next three

25:47weeks, those younger elk, the smaller elk, run around the outskirts of the herds trying to sneak in and somehow

25:54still get some kind of acceptance and find a little herd to to section off and take themselves. But then they only do

25:59it as often as they’re ready to get their butts kicked again because as soon as they come in, they just get pounded again over and over and over again.

26:06And in a certain sense, I get the picture that that’s kind of how you’ve sort of lived your life in relationships.

26:12He’s like, “I’ll go in and try, but oh, proof that I suck. Okay, I’m going to back out. I get enough courage again.

26:20Oh man, I like her just enough. I’m going to try to do something. Boom, I get rejected again.” And this time, it’s

26:25not just like, “Oh, we weren’t a good fit or our personalities didn’t match up.” Or what it means is proof that I

26:32suck. Proof that I suck. Proof that I suck. Proof that I suck. And now the emotionally the charged experience of a

26:39teenage 14year-old boy is in the driver’s seat of the grown man inside of

26:45you trying to navigate relationships. Yeah. Y so so part of how part of the solution

26:53to this is to actually attend to the emotional 14 or 13year-old

27:00to get to know that part of you to come to understand that part of you to go and

27:06have an emotionally corrective experience with that part of you that allows you to realize that you didn’t

27:12know it was happening but you were fed messages from unknowing people rather

27:17than getting your message from the true source. And so I want to spend some time getting

27:24to know that part of me and then I want to start putting that part of me in situations where there could be a

27:29different kind of experience for that part of me. Right. Yeah.

27:36What would what would happen if that 13-year-old would have known how to speak what he was feeling and would have had a great

27:42mentor there to say, “Hey, man, like you you got the

27:48goods, dude. Those kids are immature and they don’t know what they’re doing. They’re all they’re all they all feel the same way you do.”

27:55Oh, yeah. probably a whole lot of the ch events in

28:01my life would would have happened differently. Yeah, my whole personality everything

28:08would would have been on a different track if if back then I would have had

28:14some healthy way to build the confidence to say who cares if they think I know you’re

28:20good. Yeah. where you would have had a couple of different emotional experiences that

28:25could have reinforced a different story. Yeah. Of Oh, yeah. Hey, like there’s a

28:31difference between getting rejected and not being a good fit. You know,

28:37the truth is we live in a world where you’re probably going to sift through a whole bunch of people, whether it’s friends or people to date, before you

28:43find someone who’s actually pretty compatible. Yeah. I mean, the you’re not a good fit

28:50conversation. It’s just like so and so likes me now so bye. Yeah. Right. Right. That and and and

28:58even that is like okay and then whose issue is that? Is that because you’re not lovable or is because that was

29:05somebody else making a different choice and it had nothing to do with your value. Absolutely. Yeah. But but you know Brian

29:11me said he’s better than me. He’s he’s a bigger herd bull than I am.

29:17That’s right. That’s right. And because that’s the only way you knew how to interpret it and you didn’t have someone

29:22in the crossroads there to say, “Hey, come here, man. Like, you’re good. Like, you’re good. This is this is teenage

Soccer story example

29:29kids being teenage kids.” Yeah. Right. I remember I remember this

29:34happening a long long time ago. I think I referenced it several years ago on the podcast, but my youngest daughter, she

29:41went to uh we went to my oldest daughter’s high school soccer game, and at halftime, they go play soccer out on

29:46the field. And my youngest daughter is a little girl. She goes running out there. There’s three girls playing together.

29:53And my youngest daughter runs out there and I’m like, “Okay, that’s perfect. They’ll have four. They’ll be even teams. They can play on the field

29:59together.” She goes and stands next to them and they ignore her. So then she walks into them and I see her talk to

30:05them and I know she’s asking if she can play with them. And then they all said, “No, we don’t want we have enough. We don’t want to play with you.”

30:12So, I’m watching her up in the stands and my wife and I are watching her and she’s standing there at the 50 yard line

30:17getting rejected by three other girls her age and she’s standing there just now twiddling her thumbs like, “Oh no, I

30:22don’t know what to do.” And I can just see her folding into herself. She’s just like almost becoming

30:28paralyzed, you know? I mean, you can imagine what you would have felt like in the same spot. Oh,

30:34and my wife my wife gets on the phone and she calls my second daughter and she

30:41who’s out on the field, older girls, and she said, “Hey, hey, Lexi, go find your

30:46sister. She’s at the 50 yard line and take her with you to play with those other girls.”

30:52And so Lexi went and grabbed her, went and played. Halftime ends that night when we’re tucking her into bed. Sorry,

30:58I’m getting emotional about this because because we all because we all know what it’s like to be that one

31:03that’s rejected, right? So, um, as we’re tucking her into bed, my

31:08wife comes into my youngest daughter and she’s like, “Hey, how was your day?” And she’s like, “It was fine, Mom. This and that and the other, like, I played my

31:13friends and this.” And then my wife said, “I noticed at halftime today that

31:18it looked like there were some girls that didn’t want you to play with them.” And my daughter instantly just broke.

31:24She just started sobbing, just crying, just uh I mean, no one likes to get

31:30rejected that way. And I thought my wife was so brilliant because she sat there with her and she said, “I know that

31:36hurts so bad.” And she said, “But I want you to know that that has nothing to do with you.”

31:44She said, “Those little girls, they don’t have social skills to know how to play with somebody different. They

31:51haven’t been taught by their parents how to be inclusive.” and they have some problems and they’re going to have to

31:57figure that out and that is not your fault. Um, oh my gosh, my wife just took what

32:05was shame to my daughter and she turned it into humiliation. She turned into this like moment of

32:12yeah, what they did wasn’t very nice. They weren’t being nice in that moment instead of you suck,

32:20right? And in a certain sense, Micah, that’s kind of what you have in front of you right now.

32:26You got you got a 14-year-old self that needs the equivalent of my wife to

32:32step in and say, “Hey, dude, like you’re living a lie.”

32:39You have day-to-day interactions with yourself, little small things that are happening right now where you feel

32:44rejected and you just automatically believe the truth. Every one of those moments is a

32:50crossroad to meet yourself in a different way and to do something different than the autopilot has always

32:56done. So when somebody rejects you at work and

33:02you feel that same pit in your stomach, you’re like, you’re going to make a phone call to

33:08somebody. You’re going to do some self-care. You’re going to stop and catch yourself and and hold your heart

33:14for a second and say, “Man, I I need some self-compassion right now.” Oh man, my 14-year-old’s in the driver’s

33:21seat again right now. What does that 14-year-old need right now?

33:28What does he need? Yeah,

33:34he’s got enough points on top. Yeah, he’s got enough points on top.

33:39Yeah, he’s always he’s always had the goods. He was in a different situation,

33:45but he’s always had the goods. And the truth is is that the goods were planted in there by somebody different than who

33:52he’s been getting his answers from his whole life. Yeah. You didn’t realize it, but you

33:59were letting other people, other flawed, broken human beings dictate your value

Untangling worth from intimacy

34:06rather than letting the true source feed you your value.

34:18as too many times as I know this is unhealthy as heck but there’s too many times not even I’ve got teenage boys and

34:24you know at this time and stage in their life all teenage boys when they’re in their mid mid- teens are idiots

34:32and um yeah they just they go on they go on a stage every once in a while it’s a let’s

34:39roast a rage bait dad all afternoon kind of thing and

34:45I have a hard time letting that go not taking not once again I’m turning to

34:52somebody else for my acceptance when when the kids when the boys want to taunt dad I mean the other day I had him

34:58pick up my guitar from my guitar shop having some work done for it and he he gets home he says you’re devil’s

35:05instruments in the in in the trunk of my car and I

35:12you know I come back with him when he come back well we’re all devil’s instruments we’re just doing the Lord

35:17And um but I still I ate at that and ate at it

35:22and it ate at me and ate at me. It ate at me. I’m like and I’m sitting there spend a whole weekend going, should I

35:28give this up for him? Does this really bother him? Does this really offend him? Does he really think that this is offensive? I finally had to go ask my my

35:3618-year-old daughter, hey, do I need to go ask him about this? She said, no, he’s just being an

35:42So I’m sorry for the work. Yeah. you know, so I just had to find it’s just

35:50even now even my kids I you know trying to be good enough for

35:56them because I I feel so many ways I flew

36:03constantly trying to play catchup and maybe I don’t need to play catchup.

36:09Maybe I just need to start right here and

36:16Yeah. I wonder I wonder in in even that’s a perfect example. The daily the

36:22daily practice of that is I wonder if I offended my son and I wonder if I need to go get rid of my

36:28guitar or whatever else because that’s going to instead of that what if you were being sensitive to like oh I don’t

36:34want to hurt my kids feelings because that’s part of who I am. But what if when you were feeling that you actually

36:39had a different pattern where you went and sat with yourself and had some deep introspection and said, “Hey, like how

36:46do I feel about playing the guitar?” And um how does God feel about my

36:54ability to play the guitar? And what would God say I should do with that? That’s another

37:01right now. The only place I play in public is in church.

37:07Played yesterday and had a glass.

37:13Yeah, your microphone’s acting up again. Uh oh, there you go.

37:19Okay. Uh, you know, I play just play on played on Sunday and I I tend to try to

37:26even even go back and watch the the the live stream on Facebook afterward the church going where did I mess up at? Who

37:33you know? And I finally just my p worship leader like you made a mistake. Who cares? But I’m most people in the

37:39audience didn’t even realize you made a mistake. And and then I get home, my son is like, “Yeah, dad just trying to be

37:44the center act.” And I’m like, yeah,

37:50asking myself, yeah, I mean, is he does he really think that or is once again he just being just being a little rare?

37:56Yeah. And so, and again, that’s a that’s a fair question to ask yourself, but the but

38:01the issue about what we’re talking about today is that’s not that’s not the pathway forward. The pathway forward is

38:09between me and God. Is God good with me playing the guitar imperfectly but

Closing thoughts

38:17playing it? And that’s the answer. That’s the answer. And then and then after I get

38:24the answer, I can go and then adjust to whatever I need to with my relationships with other people. Right? The same thing

38:31is true in a marriage. Like if my wife comes to me and she’s like, “Tyler, you need to do this, this, this, and this, and this in order for us to save our

38:37marriage, I’m going to take that into consideration and then I’m going to go to God and I’m going to say, hey God,

38:44like which of these things would you have me do? And which of these things are not in line with my own values? And

38:50then how do I take that and assimilate the things that are right between you and me and then go and have a healthy

38:57conversation and set boundaries with my wife around these other things and let the chips fall where they’re going to

39:02fall. Because that’s where we’ve gone wrong in our lives is we’re always running it through other people first

39:09instead of pausing and saying, “Huh, that’s interesting.” like my son just said that and you’re going into like oh

39:15am I is he mad at me and is he being this and that and the other instead of like whoa like I wonder what’s going on

39:21for my son that would make him so critical like God what do you think I should do for my son

39:27that’s not even there because you’re so worried about your son telling you you’re good enough

39:32but what if you went to God first and God was like hey man like strum that guitar play the hell out of that thing

39:40you’re going to mess up and you know what your son’s hurting you might want to go check in on him.

39:46What if that was the answer instead of, “Oh no, I better hurry and make sure

39:53my h my son’s happy with me.” Right? That’s the practice. So, I’m

39:59going to pause. So, here’s I know we’re out of time. Getting close on time here in just a few minutes. But

40:05the daytoday anytime that questioning steps in anytime you

40:10feel I don’t know if you feel it or not. I feel my own like your 14 13year-old kid that’s like

40:17wondering if he can fit into the herd. Every time that comes up I’m going to

40:22encourage you to do something. You’re going to pause. Take a big deep breath.

40:30maybe two or three of those. Just breathe.

40:36And you’re going to notice what’s going on. And you’re going to say, “Man, I feel this tightness in my chest. I feel

40:41my jaw clenching. I feel my head spinning. I’m starting to ask all these questions. I’m feeling anxious or I’m

40:48feeling fearful. I’m feeling like not good enough.” Whatever that is. I’m going to give it a name. I’m feeling

40:56my sadness or my shame or my 14-year-old or my rejection. Whatever. So, I’m going to give it a name.

41:02Then, put your hands over your heart. This is going to sound cheesy. While you continue to breathe

41:09and for a minute, just do this for a second with me, Micah. Just tell me if you can feel this. Take your hand, your

41:15right hand, and put it directly over your heart, your palm, and press just firm enough that you can feel the

41:22pressure there. And then imagine, can you feel heat coming from the palm of your hand?

41:27Can you feel that heat going into your chest? With each inb breath, imagine imagine

41:34breathing in that warmth all the way into your core. Let it enter your heart and breathe all the way into your core.

41:41Can you feel that warmth start to spread? Imagine that warmth start to spread. Yes.

41:46So then as that starts to spread, you’re going to remind yourself that what you’re feeling is absolutely human.

41:52that pretty much almost every teenage boy has not been the herd bull before.

41:59Every teenage boy know what’s what it’s like to scramble for acceptance.

42:04And then you’re going to talk to yourself like you would your best friend. Hey man, you got the goods. They were

42:10already born into you from the beginning. It’s okay to be disappointed. It’s okay to have the wind knocked out

42:16of you. But you have what it takes. You’ve always had what it takes.

42:23You’re lovable. You’re worthy. You’re strong.

42:31And then you can take your hand off your heart and go about your day.

42:36What are you feeling right now? What are you thinking right now, Micah? Hopeful.

42:42Yeah. Feeling hopeful. Yeah.

42:47You know what’s cool? I don’t have to walk out. I don’t have to walk out the door feeling like a

42:53Yeah, I wasn’t, you know, go go go to my job and

43:01feel like I’m just enough for the people at home. I think I’m home to feel like

43:06I’m feeling but filling a necessary slot and that’s it.

43:11Yeah. Yeah. Even the slot that you’re feeling is also part of who you are.

43:19You’re a guy who lives with duty and loves his family and like takes care of

43:26his responsibilities. That that’s who you are. I know. Yeah.

43:31I know I’m stepping up and I never get even if you don’t get a hug.

43:37Yeah. Um Yeah, man. Well, I’m feeling a ton of love for you right now.

43:45Um, and I feel like there’s a whole bunch of other wounded little boys listening right now that also might just

43:52consider that they don’t have to live that way anymore. Um, so so every time this comes up, the

44:00good thing is is that if you spend a lot of time in your head being critical, you get to practice this a lot of times. So

44:06every time you notice it, you’re going to meet yourself with that exercise.

44:11Um, in addition to that, your daily charge, which you’ve probably heard on the show

44:17before. I just talked about it in the last episode. And then having a good team, like making sure that there’s a

44:23couple other people in your life that can just hear and hold whatever it is you’re processing.

44:30And and then on the deeper side of things, I think if you’re doing any one-on-one therapy with anyone or something, I think you have a you have a

44:38gold mine of opportunities for some art or some EMDR or IFS

44:43if you have a good therapist that can do that. So,

44:48yeah. Okay. And if you need help with that, then you know, we can I’m sure we can get you connected to somebody who’s

44:54really good with that kind of stuff. So, um, right now, right now, my our focus is is

45:02she she’s already has knows she needs that and is committed to starting that.

45:08So, right now, right now, my focus is taking care of her person. Cool. I That’s whatever you got to do,

45:14man. But you can also take care of yourself in these other ways. Yeah. So,

45:21um, thank you for your willingness to come on and be so real, man. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you. You

45:28have no idea what this means to Yeah. Well, yeah, man. Well, I I

45:33appreciate you willing to come on and share yourself the way you do. And appreciate the listeners who are here

45:38that are probably providing some kind of support without you even knowing it right now. And um

45:44and yeah, thank you. Thank you. Thank you to our listeners. And until next time, you guys, keep on keeping on.

45:52Awesome. See you.