What Should My Boundary Look Like Around My Husband’s Relapses?

What should my boundaries look like after my husband’s relapse?

What should my boundaries look like after my husband’s relapse?Brandon, good to see you, man. Tyler, how’s it going?It’s going good for me, dude. I uh I I want to ask yousomething. Every time you ask that say that, I like brace for impact. And I always ask nice questions.I just just wonderful questions about life. usually put me on the spot and try to make me uncomfortable in some way.Do you do you do neighbor gifts for Christmas? Oh, dude. Like that has been that hasbeen like a discussion year after year in our in our uh marriage and this yearwe did no neighbor gifts. Oh man. Yeah. I am not like you. Brandon Brandonhas uh dubbed himself in our family as the king of jingaling, claiming to be like the most likefestive and Christmy dude in our family. I don’t know if that’s true or not. Ho ho ho. But I would bet that you do I would betthat you do neighbor gifts. Well, so life hack here. And if any of my neighbors are listening, you cannotsteal this. Um, I was telling my daughter, I said, “A good gift is one where you where youdon’t have to spend a lot of money and yet the person is still like, “Dang, Ilove that. Thank you.” Right. Yeah, that’s a great gift. Right. You like, so I I think we figuredthat out for the neighbors. I don’t know. But I feel a little guilty saying this, butwe’ve done it for like 12 years. We go to Costco, we buy a pineapple, and we stick a little tag in it that saysMeliki Maka. Everybody loves a pineapple. Everybody loves We don’t have to bakecookies. We don’t have to do anything. We go to Costco and buy a pineapple. You buy like a pallet of pineapples. Oh,I I bought like 70. Yeah. So, last night for three hours meand the kids were delivering pineapples. Hey, that’s a good tradition, especially to keep like with your uh Hawaiian rootssince I know you guys lived there for a while. That’s that’s like good for you guys to remember those times, too. One of my neighbors got it last nightand was like, “Oh, yeah. It’s that time of year.” Thanks. Oh, yeah. It’s the Christmas pineapple. Like, everyone knows about the Christmaspineapple. Yeah. It’s like the Christmas orange. Usually they’re unripe and like completely sour and they probably justthrow them away. But it gets We get a lot of chocolates and cookies back from all the neighbors. get the job done.Um, anyways, um, let’s move on into the more important topic here. So, uh, we got

Meet Cassidy + marriage/addiction history

Cassidy here, and I’m actually really, really excited to have Cassidy here. We go back a ways. Um, Cassidy, welcome tothe show. Thank you. I’m happy to be here. Um,I’ll let you give a little more background even though I I know you a bit. So, just share with us what’s goingon and and give us a little bit of context to what’s been going on and uhwe’ll go from there. Okay. Um you’ve been married for 15 years. We’ve been together for 17. Idiscovered his addiction pretty much from the very beginning. So, we’ve had a lot of history.About six years ago, I caught him relapsing and was just at a breaking point. So, I told him like, I think youneed more help. I don’t think this is something you can just stop doing. So, we got into therapy. I um in about 5years, we did multiple groups. We did couples groups, we did individual work,couples work, we did EFT, um we did pretty much all of it. Andthen about a little over a year ago, I read the book The Secure Love and itchanged my perception of my recovery. and I realized I had a lot more work I needed to do.And so I was telling my husband I felt like he needed to read it too. And at the time it just wasn’t a priority,which was pretty accurate for where our relationship was at the time. We were in a really bad spot. And anyway, shortly

Emotional affair + broken boundaries

after that, I discovered that he was having an emotional affair. And um you know obviously boundaries werenot there and the relationship was inappropriate but what he considered to be like the affair took place for acouple day period. Um I would set boundaries with him andtell him if you have contact with her then I’m done and he would commit to me and then turn around and go right backto her. So this happened for a few days and then one night I told him the samething and the next day he came home from work early and we had a therapy session and I asked him did you have contactwith her and he said yes. She called me and told me that her fiance got a jobthey were moving out of state. She’s putting in her two weeks. It’s like okay well crap now what do I do because myboundary was broken but felt like maybe with her leaving things would kind of shift. Anyway, we had a therapy sessionand therapist just basically let him have it. Told him what he was doing was not okay and he needed tocommit one way or the other. So the next day I set a boundary with him and just told him like, I’m not willing to dothis anymore. This has been horrible and traumatic and you can’t commit to me and end this and at least have enoughrespect to tell me that and let me walk away. And so he ultimately ended up committing and put boundaries in placeand he has honored those in regards to her for over a year.But this was a huge reality check for both of us. I think it kind of showed us where our relationship was. I think itmade him aware of the severity of his addiction and how what he was willing torisk for it. So he kind of decided it was time to dive into deeper work, too.So, he got in a group and that has been life-changing for him. I think he’sfinally addressing the core wounds instead of just putting band-aids on them. And so, in this last year, likehe’s joined group, he went to the rising sun retreat, both of us did the plant medicine journey, which for mepersonally was probably like the most beneficial therapeutic thing I have ever done. So, I feel like, you know, andwe’ve done a lot of the like attachment style work, the EFT. So, I feel like we’ve really really dived into likedeeper recovery more this last year, but it’s not to say that relapses haven’t

Recent relapses, honesty concerns, trust erosion

happened. So, back in April, he had what he considered a relapse. He said hedidn’t act out, but he considered a relapse because he said that the behaviors were still there. And thena few months after that, it was the same thing. He said he didn’t actually act out, but it was still the behaviors werethere and that was his intent. He was just able to he said like white knuckled it enough to not get to that point.Truthfully, I don’t know if I fully believe that, but I kind of surrendered that if that’s what he’s saying and he’snot being honest, that’s on him. Like it wouldn’t really change anything for me. And then about a month after that, hedid relapse and and he like I got home that night and things kind of felt offand I asked him about it and he gave me this really great believable story how he didn’t relapse and this is actuallywin for him. And then the next day I still felt something’s off. So I pushedhim a little bit harder and then at that point I knew he was lying and so I just told him like I have a boundary like I’m not willing to engage in conversationwith you if you’re not going to be honest. And then it took a little bit, but hefinally came clean and told me everything. So anyway, I’m I don’t know.I’m just struggling with figuring out like where my boundary is supposed to be cuz for 17 years I told him if you relapse again, I’m leaving. But I’venever left in 17 years. And I also feel likewhat’s hard is like I see recovery work being done in the moments where sobriety is taking place, but the moment that herelapses, I’m getting the exact same outcome that I’ve always gotten. And I feel like I kind of justified it awaythat like he didn’t have the tools and the knowledge and you know, these are coping skills that he’s learned from avery young age. But kind of at the point now where like you have all of this andI don’t know. I’m just kind of feeling like if he is continuing to relapse, it’s because he’s really not truthfully doing the workto stay away from it or to handle it different if he does. So, I’m just trying to figure out whatthat boundary is like supposed to look like in a healthy way.

What keeps her staying + what relapse means to her

Cassidy, could I uh just ask for you? Um, sounds like you guys have been on quite a road together. Um, there’s likethree questions going through my head as you were talking. First question is through all of this,what keeps you still here? Number one. Number two,um when he relapses, what is your experience when he relapsesand what does that mean to you? Um I honestly I think the reason I havestayed is like I truthfully feel that he can overcome this.So, it’s like I think there’s a piece like I don’t want to give up on him and like I know that if he can like wecan we can like we can be happy together.So, I think that that’s the biggest thing. And then second question is like my experience when he relapses that you said.Yeah. What is your experience to his relapses and what does it mean to you?It’s horrible. I mean, in 17 years, he has never disclosed a relapse to me. He has gotten caught every single time. Andso, honestly, there’s a lot of trauma around all of it. No matter like how bigor small the relapses, just for the way that it plays out.And I think that’s kind of where I’m at. Like, I don’t I’m not willing to keep doing that anymore.Yeah. What does it mean to you that it’s never been disclosed? What does therelapse mean to you? What does the hiding mean to you? What does the lying mean to you? What’s the narrative orstory that goes through you as a result of having this happen over and over again?Um I I don’t know. I think like I try to have empathy for him. Like I understandthat there’s a lot of childhood wounds that have led him to to these behaviors and like why he hidesand stuff knowing his his upbringing. Butit’s hard for me to trust his recovery is honest and sincere whenit’s the same outcome every time. Yeah. And and and go a little bitfurther. I know I’m pushing and being annoying here for a second, but but um it’s hard for youbecause what does it mean to you that you can’t that you don’t have that honesty that you don’t have that sincerity that you don’t have like whatdoes that mean to you? Honestly, I think it means I will never fully trust him. like if I can’t if Ican’t trust him to be honest with me even in the really hard times like itkind of feels like the foundation of our relationship and it’s just always lacking. It’s never there.There it is. So, so all of this boils down to at least for you the biggestportion of it is is that the way that it happens as much as what happens is eroding yourability to trust him in the relationship which means then you can’t fully lean in. You can’t fully trust. You can’tfully like even yourself probably want to fully commit and feel like you’re stupid for doing it if you don’t havetrust there. Yeah. What I I want to just back up a little.Um the Cassidy like you you know a lot.

Secure attachment: trust, safety, reconnection

You’ve done a lot of therapy, read a lot of books. Um like what what is secureattachment? Like I know I’m putting you on the spot, but to you what does that mean?Um for me personally or like within my relationship? Uh yeah, both maybe.Um, I think for me personally, it’s being able to trust myself, which I think plays into this, like trust thatI’m putting in the work to set a boundary that I know I will follow through with. For me, like I need toknow that. And I think in my relationship, it’s it’s the security that like no matter what happens, we canalways come back to a secure place. So we can have disagreements or we can have issues and we work through them andhandle them appropriately to be able to reconnect in the end. I guess it’s whatever needs to happen tobe able to reconnect, right? So So okay,what’s the difference between um like a codependent relationship or aninterdependent relationship? Like as as we’re talking about honesty, you’re saying I want him to be honest with me,right? Can can secure attachment or an interdependent relationship happenwithout honesty? No, I don’t believe so.I don’t think so either. Um, and so I I mean just I I have a ahistory of background. So a a big issue in this relationship is honesty, right?Um however in a codependent relationship both partners are are kind of always umadjusting becoming chameleons not showing up authentic because getting theapproval or the attachment of the other person is the most important thing andthere’s fear there and so it undermines like honesty because it’s like am Igoing to get rejected am I going to be Okay. Um, and so as much as they’retrying to to be loved and be okay to the other person, they’re actually destroying being loved and being okay tothe other person. Um, so what does this have to do with you?Right. So like, as I’m talking about this, Cassidy, um, why do you think I’m going here withthis? I mean I I think because you have a verygood insight of what’s happening. So I think that my husband is so worriedabout feeling rejected from me that he becomes a chameleon to say and do what he thinks that I want so he doesn’t haveto feel that rejection. Yeah. And and do not take this as meblaming you at all like that. But a lot like his relapses have a lot to do withresentment toward you 100%. Which is where this the attachmentwork that like the book that I read last year really hit home. Like I’m not responsible for his addiction or himrelapsing. But it was a wakeup call for me to realize that I play a part in thecycles of our relationship. And I believe his addiction also has a cycle. So, I kind of walked away feeling like Ican either contribute in a positive way or a negative way to that while notbeing responsible, if that makes sense. That’s that’s a great way to look at this. Absolutely. So, I think you got totake a step back and say like he can come along and say, “Hey, Cassidy, come play in this dynamic with me whereyou’re the god. You’re the one that gives me my worth. You’re the one that tells me I’m okay. Come play in this.”and he he ends up feeling like a weakling child who has no say and andand and you could take the bait of yeah, I’m going to like hover over you andtell you what you can and can’t do and and it when you’re in that dynamic together, it that’s a codependentrelationship, right? Versus and and and so if you were to back out of that andsay, “Okay, let’s look at an al alternative here.” um an interdependentrelationship. Cassidy shows up to the table honest and and healthfullyboundaried. He shows up to the table honest and healthfully boundaried. Now, if you showup honest and he he doesn’t like your truth, does that mean you change your truth?No. I think that’s where the secure attachment comes in. We can each stand in our own truth and even if they don’tcompletely align, we can respect that’s where the other person is at and figure out how we navigate going forward, whichdoesn’t mean necessarily changing it. What if he comes along and his truth is like very triggering to you?I think that we have a very honest conversation where both parties can beheard and understood and then I don’t know I don’t know if wefind a place where we meet in the middle or we just call our therapist and we go each other.That’s not a bad answer actually. Yeah. And I think maybeto that Yeah. And I think maybe to add to your answer there, I like where you’re going,Cassidy, but maybe that’s also still a place where good healthy boundaries come in that if you are still ex extremelytriggered or whatever, then you’re going to need to do some things to take care of yourself, to get your feet planted, to get your head right, and then makewhatever decisions you need to based off of your values and based off of what he’s saying if he’s being honest. Now,the hard part is is in all of this is that it sounds like there’s a pattern in history where you’re not getting thathonesty. So, so the problem is, sorry, I he’s honest. Ifeel like outside of relapses. That’s what’s really hard. And then it makes it hard to trust the honesty that I do seewhen in those really crucial moments he’s dishonest.Right. Cassie, can I back up with you here because I want to get to the crux of

Boundaries vs control (why “You can’t…” isn’t a boundary)

your question here of like a a healthy boundary. So, if you come to him, let’slet’s use the emotional affair as an example. This could be a hard one, but it could be a good one. Um, you come tohim and you say you can’t contact her anymore. Is that a healthy boundary?No. No. That this is a setup for the codependency in the relationship. Canyou see that? Yeah. Yeah. because because he’ll either hide it from you or you know he’ll likeso so and then you’re above him saying you can or can’t do something. Right.Right. So if if Cassidy comes along and says somethingum more vulnerable and and this is what Tyler was trying to get at with you earlier.um tapping into your deep truth independent of himum about who you are and what you need. So it has nothing to do with him. Butwhat the only thing it has to do with him is he’s triggered something because you found out about this this emotional affair. Right? So now it’s Cassidysaying who am I? Okay now has nothing to go back to him and say you have to dothis or that or whatever. you show up to the table and say and and you you I heard you I heard you say somethingpretty healthy earlier actually, but what are your truths underneath thissituation? What are your values that are important to you that are independent ofhim? Do you know Cassidy?I mean, are you asking in general like specific situation? No, no. I I’m asking specific to you andthere’s no right or wrong. This is this is you being authentic, you being cast. Your your truth might be I’m perfectlyfine with it and it’s wonderful. I don’t hear that from you, right? Your truthmight be totally different than what my truth would be around in this situation, but who is Cassidy? What’s important toyou when it comes to what you value um and your marriage and what you needin your life, right? Um so there’s no should here. it. This isyours, Cassidy. So, let’s say you find out that he’s been contacting her again.Okay. What What’s important to you? Um, well, I think the biggest one islike honesty. It obviously would be done behind my back, so that feels dishonest.But hang on, hang on, Cassidy. And I like that’s still about him.So, so let’s dig under that honesty. Why do you need honesty from your partner?Why does Cassidy need that? Because I value trust. There you go. Okay. You value trust. Yousaid that pretty confidently. You value trust. Do you need trust in your marriage, in your closestrelationships? Yeah. I feel like that’s a very big core value of mine.Okay. With with any relationship that has nothing to do with him at this point. That’s you saying, “I valuetrust.” Okay. Anything else about dishonesty or about why thisdoesn’t work for you that’s underneath for you? Trust. What else?I honestly I feel like the ones that are coming to mind still boil back down to the same thing, which is trust.What does uh what does trust allow for you to do or have, Cassidy?Um, I mean, I feel like it helps me feelsafe and secure, which meanswhat happens if you’re safe and secure in the relationship? What does that mean you can offer and what does that mean toyou inside of what do you get from that? I mean, honestly, it makes me it itallows me to feel like I can show up like authentically to myself.Yeah. So, so you’re a So, the more there’s safety and trust in the relationship,the more you can fully express yourself authentically, which is probably what your partnerswanted all along. Correct. And you probably want the same back.Yeah. Yeah. Because that would allow for deeper connection, more loyalty, moresafety, more vulnerability. Yeah. Yeah. And and you want to give that likethat you’re a loving soul who wants to be in an intimate relationship and so you value that trust because you wantthat deep connection. Right. Right. Right. So this is all about you at this point.I know he did something to trigger all this. Right. Right. But but if we get Cassidy, if weget to the the interaction now with him and you go and you say you you need tostop being dishonest, um you broke my boundary, you’re dishonest, and here’s your punishment.Boom. Now you’re now you’re playing that game with him where he’s the child and you’re the mom and rightversus if you go to him as a powerful woman whocan open up and protect the values that you have. That looks different. Do doyou know how that looks? Maybe a little bit, but it’s why I’m here.We’ll help you through it, Cassidy. Okay. Thanks. Um, now it’s hard because your anger andyour hurt will want to will want to jump right into that dynamic, right? You didwhat? Here’s your punishment. I can’t believe you hurt me again. You’re horrible or whatever, right? Like that’snormal. It’s normal to want to react that way. Or it might be controlling inother ways or jumping in, right? Versuslet me take a minute. I need time. Um, I’m going to connect to God. I’m goingto call my support system. I might even talk to my therapist and then I’m going to come back and we’ll have we’ll we’lltalk about this. So then you come back and you say and and maybe you’re vulnerable, maybe you’re emotional,maybe you’re not. And you just say, you know what, these here here’s here’s whatI need and here’s what is not being met in our relationship. And for me, when I gauge this right now,like I’m really hurt. I’m really hurt that there’s been a breach of trustbecause trust is so important to me. I want to be an authentic human that canlove deeply. And right now, I can’t do that with you. And that hurtsum because I I want to and that’s important to me, right? Do you see how you’re still kind of talking about you,right? and he might jump in and try to fix it or jump in and say sorry or wallow in the muck of his shame at thispoint, right? He might do all those things and uh he’s trying to pull you back in that dynamic of let’s let’s play thegame of I’ll be a good boy until you tell me I’m okay, right? Which feeds the resentment when he does that in the asyour do you know how you don’t take the bait?No. just I mean I feel like I have to stay grounded like if I stay grounded andmake sure like I’m in my window of tolerance and I like I can see through these things clearly and step away fromthem. That’s it. Stay conscious. See them as they’re happening.Even acknowledge them as they’re happening. Not back at him of like look there you go again. Like not like thatbut it’s hey I’m noticing that this is where we’re going. I’m not going to go there right now. I just need to I justneed to let you know my truth here and my boundaries of where I’m at with this.So, you just kind of cut it off. Um or you could even I mean you I I wantto use his name so bad because I’ve and he wouldn’t care if I did, but uh youguys know enough you got enough you got like a master’s degree in all this stuff. like you you can speak thatlanguage with him and he would get it like he’d be like, “Oh yeah, okay.” Like, right,right. Um, and he could do it back to you like like, “Hey, Cassidy, I’m noticing you’reyou’re telling me what I should and shouldn’t do. I don’t want to play that game. I want to just talk to youvulnerably and honestly about who I am, and I want to listen about who you areright now.” Right. Yeah. Um, so and Tyler, I know I’m taking overhere. Jump in if if if you if you need to, please. Um,you you you express your your your values. You open up and be vulnerableabout who you are and then you get clear with um your requests.Like you can make requests back to him. Um he can say yes or no. And then youget clear with your needs that are independent of him so that you know what’s in your controland what you can and can’t do in the situation. Right. Um, so what are you hearing mesay, Cassidy? Honestly, I feel like what it comes down to is I’ve kind of been focused on likewhat one specific boundary should look like, but I think the more I sit here and sit in this, the reality is it’sit’s one boundary about honesty that covers so many different situations inour relationship. Yeah. What’s uh what’s the emotion that’s going through you right now, Cassidy? Your body language is liketelling me something about what Brandon’s saying. What what are you experiencing right now?I mean, honestly, it’s I’m kind of laughing a little bit because we had a situation that happened yesterday whereI feel like this is exactly what happened. Something small happened, but it didn’t work for me. And so, like Itold him that and he was he was very understanding, but he kind of went to the you know, like I told him one point,it kind of feels like you’re going into victim here and that’s just kind of frustrating. So, and I actually just told him like if that’s where you’re at,like I’ll hold space for that, but I’m not going to engage in that and get sucked into that.Excellent. So, which is kind of why I’m like I think this is such a bigger boundary that covers so much I didn’t realizeuntil now. And once I told him that, like he responded good and apologized andexpressed he was just feeling a lot of emotions, but he could see why it was coming that way. And anyway, like he was able to show up better, butthat there’s a there’s a hurdle, Cassidy, that I I just I’m just going to say it because I kind of know. Um youwant him to be honest. Um and and I know he’ll listen to this. And the truth isis your relationship lacks trust because there’s been a a breakdown in honesty inthe relationship. And as long as I’ve known you, you’ve been like trying to figure out how to feel safe and tryingto figure out how to trust and you’ve done things that have undermined that and you’ve done things that have worked well and and and um but but here’s thehurdle, Cassidy. And and I think you know this him being honest is is in a way he it’sit’s excruciating for him because he feels like he’s going to get abandoned rightnow. Him being honest also could be excruciating for you because some of hishonest truth could be really hard and triggering. Yeah. So, in those moments where you’reboth really vulnerable where he’s saying, “Cassidy, this is I like here I am.” And you’re like, “Ah, this is soscary.” Like, and and for you guys to practice in that space just a little bitof, okay, I’m going to regulate my own emotions. I’m going to see you and hear you. I’m going to be honest with you,with you about my my boundaries and who I am around that. But we’re not going toleave this situation with you’re bad and you’re rejecting me. We’re going to leave this situation withwe’re both understood and maybe we need to take some space from each other or whatever, but we both feel seen andunderstood here. Now, where we go from here, we got to sort that out. Do do you see what I’m saying? And andthat that’s your a huge opportunity for the two of you to like build what you actually want.Um, right. Um, you know, if he I don’t know what wouldlike be really triggering to you, but if he wanted to like quit his job or he wanted and he hasn’t said any of thisstuff to me, Cassidy, I’m making this up. So, he wanted to quit his job or hehe wanted to he needed to go to lunch with a business associate that was a woman and he worked with his recoveryteam and he feels safe about it and he feels okay about it, right? Should he gotell you he feels okay about it? Yes. Yes. I mean, there was a situationhappened a little bit ago. I don’t even remember what it was, but he came to me and said like this is what he felt he needed to do. And it was it did not feelgood to me. Like it was scary. But when he explained why and where he was coming from and he just said like this is whatI’m doing because this is what works for me. I walked away and I was like I’m I’m actually shocked because that’sterrifying. But I actually feel so much more secure, I guess, with him beinghonest and just telling me respectfully that likeYes. Like in the situation, I’d rather him have come to me and and tell me that. Yeah. That becauseAnd you don’t have to like it either still. Right. Right.It’s weird because you won’t like it, but you’ll like it because it’s like it’s not that codependent weaklingshowing up. It’s that man who knows who he is and can handle youryour reaction. And it when he can do that, then you’re like, “Oh, he’ll he’llactually show I I don’t know that guy that actually just shows up rigorously honest despite the consequences.”Um, which is the trust that comes in like I trust when he’s showing up honest andstanding in his truth even if it doesn’t feel good for me. It actually builds the trust.The the deep work that he’s done and and that you’ve done that he’s done. Thedeep work that he’s done is going to push him to start start to know himself and tap into his real worth and uhindependent of getting his value and his worth from you. Um which is awesome.That’s that’s the ingredient that we need so that he can then show up consistently with you in that honest wayand that empathetic way. Um and and for you, Cassidy, hopefully you get to thepoint where it’s like, okay, that like this is hard. I but but I like this. Iwant him to show up this way. I encourage this um because I want thattrust and I want to support him in being an honest man with me, right? Um, butit’s not your responsibility to to get him to do that. That is ultimately his.Right. Right. I’m I’m wondering, Cassie, like in my head as I’ve been listening, I wonder ifthere’s like maybe layers of boundaries that we could talk about rather than a single boundary. Um, the first one wouldbe you use the term window of tolerance or we could also say being able to staygrounded. Um, I wonder if that’s the first layer of boundaries that that you’d really belooking at is what am I going to need in my interactions with him to be able to stay grounded?When am I when am I going to have to take a time out? When am I going to have to detach from the conversation? What am I what am I going to do in terms of myself-care or downtimes after that? Like, because if I don’t stay within thatwindow of tolerance and I go to a flooded state, then all bets are off anyway. Right. Right. So the minute I’m there, I thinkmaybe I have my own personal boundaries to just say I need to stay grounded and within my window of tolerance first.When I’m there, then the next layer may come in, which is kind of some of the relational stuff and and some of thethings that we’ve been talking about. And I’ve been kind of just like diagramming like uh have you do you everdo like as a as a kid, do you ever do those little books, the Mad Libs books where you like the kids do them? Theythey do them where it’s like it’s they they fill in a word here and there to create the whole story or whatever,right? Would you be willing to do like Mad Libs for just a second? Sure.I took a turn. I didn’t expect it. Okay. In my in my relationship, I really wantblank. Probably trust or safety, which I guessare the same. So trust in my relationship. I want trust and safety because that allows me to blink.Be vulnerable and show up authentic to myself. Yeah. I think you actually want thosethings from me to my partner. Right. Period. Yeah. Okay. Now to your partner. You canchoose to do blank or blank or blank.You can choose to be honest. Honest. Authentic to himself.Okay. You can choose to lie and deceive and hide. Yes.Choose. You could come up with six different blanks, but let’s just go with those two. You can choose to be honest and authentic, or you can choose to lieand hide. If you choose to be honest, this is how I can show up. If you choose to be

A simple boundary framework: honesty vs hiding

dishonest, this is how I’m going to need to show up to protect my own heart.I really like that. So, how are you going to show up if he’s honest and authentic?If he’s honest and authentic, then I show up authentic and vulnerable.Awesome. Even if it’s hard, right? Okay. And I’ll still have to make mychoices. Right. Yeah. Okay. If if you continue to show up dishonest and hiding, what am I goingto need to do? Um say disconnectfrom like the unhealthy behaviors that are happening.That’s I don’t I can’t think of those. Yeah. And that might be at a certain that might be at any different level. I might be an hour of a drive. That mightbe a few days away. That might be an emotional disconnection. That could be a lot of different things. Right. Right. Okay. Which I don’t think you want. Husband.Right. And I don’t want to be there either. So whatever you decide to do is what I’mgoing to choose to do. And now you know. Yeah. Yeah. That what what like to reinforce this right here, Tyler. Idon’t think either one of us want that. But I will have to disconnect if I dofeel that that lack of trust and safety. Like I’m still going to have to do that. And um it just and to protect myselflike Yeah. which which sucks for both of us. Like you know you don’t want thateither. I don’t want that. But that’s what I’m that’s what I’ve been having to do. And I’ve been telling you I have to leave you every time which now I’mrealizing I haven’t been honest with you either. And probably you don’t trust that. I mean it when I say it. Um butbut I will be taking some space and eventually that might mean leaving right um if this doesn’t continue to change.Now, the second thing I wanted to mention just as you guys were talking is, and I think this is it, and it’s starting, I see it settling in a littlebit, is you can have some boundaries around the relapses,but the bigger issue in you guys’ relationship is the pattern and thecharacter flaws that have protected the relapsing, the dishonesty. It’s the dishonesty. It’s the lying.It’s the manipulation. It’s the playing small. It’s the kind of like gaslighting. All of those things are the things thaterode what you really want in the relationship even more than the relapse itself,right? And so I would I would say it’s okay for you to have discussions and somepersonal kind of course of action around those those things even if it’s notaround a specific relapse, right? You know, those are patterns that have to be worked on and changed and shifted.And most partners, if they see, hey, my partner has this habit of being dishonest, but I see them chipping away at it or being accountable in otherparts of life. There’s little drops of trust that go in the bucket. And if they’re not, then that’s just as much of a red flag as the relapse itself,right? And so that’s where you’re starting to see, oh, there’s a commitment towards overall change. I’llstay in my window of tolerance and wrestle with this. But if there’s no commitment towards those things, then that’s going to be a whole differentthing for me. Right. Right. Cassidy,I before we run out of time, I just want to say like I have good and bad news for you.Um that I think it’s all good news though. Soyou guys have um crossed some thresholds um in terms of your work that yourrelationship your old relationship is done like a andum you’re pushing yourselves because you’re doing deeper work. Your relationyour being together and your relationship is going to get pushed to the brink.And that’s a good thing. If you guys can workthrough this together and push through this together, you’re going to come out on the other end with a completelydifferent relationship. Um, that is awesome. But I hate to saythis, you’re going to have to pay the price. And what what I mean by that is these littleuncomfortable messy middle moments where he’s it’s really hard for him to show uphonest with you, but he’s doing it anyways. It’s really hard for you to actually show up honest with him or staytrue to yourself and hold a boundary, but you do it anyways. And as you learnhow to communicate through that, um I think you’ll get stronger and strongertogether. Um, now if you’re doing that work and his addiction is like pullingstrings behind the scenes, then at some point you’re going to have to say, “Whoa, like I’m I’m getting more andmore vulnerable, doing this harder work, and like at some point you got to get real with yourself that maybe mayberecovery is not not happening.” from my experience with him is he’s motivated,he’s learning, he’s moving forward. Um, but uh he he’s finally finding the rightwork to do and the right things to address. Um, agree. So,a and Cassidy, I I don’t I don’t want to tell you you should hang in there through this like um that’s your choice.and for him too, like right like do you guys want to do this together? Um,but uh it’ll push you to the brink, but it’ll be awesome to see you guys on the other end because you you’re bothfighters and you’re both going to do this. So, yeah. What do you think about what I’m saying?Me, sorry, not Tyler. Yeah, you um I mean he he said this not terriblylong ago that you had told him the same thing and I said, “Well, it’s funny. I like I totally agree. I feel like thework that we’ve done maybe even just in the last six months has been harder than all of the years combined because it’sit’s the deeper work. So, it’s hard, but I I mean, even with thislast year of trying to recover from everything that happened, like it’s beenthe hardest year, but it’s also been the best year. Like, I have felt more connected to him and have a way deeperrelationship than we’ve ever had, even through all of the hard.Yeah. Yeah. That’s good, Cassidy.Yeah. Cassidy, thank you for your willingness to come on today and to to share the way you’ve shared today. Um,any any last thoughts or takeaways that you care to share before we end today?I appreciate you having me here. I am realizing what I thought was the deeperwork is actually not. There’s way more underneath it that I need to figure out.But I mean, it really comes back down to my core values and and what I need inany relationship. So, a lot to think about. Cassie, I want you to know that I knowyou’re in good hands with therapy and things like that. Um, I have a little more exposure to him and connection tohim. Um, but uh I’m definitely and you know this, I’m not on anybody’s side andand I’m uh I’m here for you as much as him. However I can help, however I cansupport you, um I’m happy to help you. So, thank you. You have been a lifesaver andfor all of these years, but especially this past year. So, thank you so much. Thanks, Cassidy.Yeah. Thank you, Cassidy. Thank you to our listeners for being here with us. Hopefully this is helpful andum and for some of our listeners here who might be going through similar things, if you find this helpful, pleaseshare it with people that might also benefit from it. And if you want to speak to Cassie, the best way to do thatis to either reach out to us through therapyros.org or um write a review. And until nexttime,