Where Do I Go From Ground Zero?

Intro: Therapy Brothers + “hard conversations”

Where do we go from ground zero? Brandon, it’s good to see you, man. Hey,it’s good to see you, brother. I know. I’m glad we’re both in the same place today. Uhum yeah, it’s good to see you over the weekend, too. Yeah, it was really nice. You ate thebiggest salad I’ve ever seen, dude. Like, it I I fell I fell victim to the trap. If anybody goes to like a grocerystore that’s got like a really nice salad bar and it’s like by the pound, they give you like the bowl that’s notlike a normal serving size. It’s like enough to feed like a whole family and then you just like add a little bit hereand you add a little bit there and pretty soon you got a whole bowl that should feed a whole family but now like how much was that salad, Brandon?You think you think you’re being healthy and you you just ate a $35 salad with like with like 17,000 calories.Exactly. That’s I I just I just fell victim to that totally. And then I washed it thenI washed it down with a bowl of like homemade soup from there.The funny part about it was it was like 10 10:00 a.m.We we just gotten together for like a meeting together like at 8:00 a.m. and by 10 10:15 you and I are eating likesalad bar from Harmon’s massive salad. It But it was good, you know. It was really good. It was delicious. Itwas delicious. Yeah. Yeah. Congratulations on that. I’ll learn from my mistakes.I was eating sushi at 10:00 a.m., so who am I to talk? Yeah. Um, well, we have avery special person on as a guest today, and I’m really excited to have her here. So, uh, Lisa, I I won’t give get toomuch out of the, uh, bag here because I want her to talk about her experience, but she’s an amazing therapist and apodcast host and has her own personal, uh, story of growth and recovery and um,it’s just awesome to have her. So, Lisa, Lisa, welcome to the show. Thank you guys. I’m really happy to be

Meet Lisa: therapist, podcaster, and “humaning through life”

here. Yeah. uh if you could just give maybe a little bit of background and tell us uhsome of your story and uh we’ll go from there. Okay. So, I’m a licensed professionalcounselor. I’ve been practicing since 2007 and I have dabbled with like um PHPs,IOPs, and now I’ve had my own private practice for several years. And for ummost of my career, I was I was specializing in eating disorders, but asI’m going to share today, um I’m a therapist, but I’m also Lisa the human.And that’s how I show up with my clients, and that’s how I show up on my podcast. And just like everybody else inthe world, like I’ve been humaning through, as Glenn and Doyle calls it, like a brutal life where it’s brutal,it’s awful, it’s beautiful, it’s amazing. And um I’ve had some groundzeros and that’s even changed my line of work. Um I’ve always loved I love beinga counselor. Uh I love working with people. But over time, um, I I justwasn’t passionate about the topic anymore. My my life experiences and justmy interest started to shift. So, I used again one of my ground zeros to beintentional with my life and my job. And I a few years ago, I shifted intogetting more trainings and things that I love like EMDR, helping to heal trauma.I sometimes work with betrayal trauma. Um it kind of fell on my lap, but I Iactually work with a lot of therapists who um you know just come to me to talkabout how to balance caring for others and and being there and showing up insuch a crazy world right now um while also taking care of themselves. And I’vekind of used again my ground zeros to to wake me up and live my best and truestlife. And now I get to share it with them and help kind of motivate them to do the same. SoI love that word beautiful. Yeah, man. I am I am living a beautiful liferight now too. I think we all are. Um so take us back just a little bit, Lisa.um some of these ground zeros you talk about that have shifted your focus, shifted your life. Um you don’t have toget into the details of it, but I’m just wondering how did they create such a shift? Um what was it like in thosemoments for you? Um if you could just kind of go back and think about those times.Um they obviously had a pretty intense influence on your life and the direction that your life took. Um, if you couldtalk about that a little bit, Brandon, and and while you do that, Lisa, just uh I’m I’m sure most peoplelistening will understand what you mean by ground zero moments, but maybe describe what you mean by a ground zeromoment and then kind of share what Brandon’s talking about. Sure. Um, Tyler, I’m sort of like you. Iknow you I Brandon teases you for reading things, but I’m a reader, too. Um, so ground zero is kind of like amoment where you’re just going about life and and tra tragedy strikes and umout of nowhere sometimes. And um at the time it feels like everything you knew,everything you loved, your life that you had, it it feels like your your house has burnt down and you’re starting brand

Defining “Ground Zero” and “Lifequakes”

new from scratch. And um I happened to come across this this word called a lifequake that I I wish I had found when I started my podcast, but it talks about asignificant and unexpected shift in the trajectory of your life that initially feels devastating but has had thebeneficial outcome of catalyzing personal growth, transformation, and rebirth.Awesome. Yeah. So, um, just to just to to start,when I was a teenager, I had a lot ofcomplicated losses. Um, I had a family member die in a fire unexpectedly.Um, a friend my age died in a car accident. Another one was like this15-year-old boy who had this rare heart condition and died on the basketball court. My both my grandmothers passed

Teen losses, fear of love, and getting into therapy

away. the the boy that I thought I loved at the time was graduating and going offto college. My best friend moved like all in a year, a year. And it was theworst one of the worst years of my life. Um, and at the time I was reallyunderstandably really depressed, struggling so hard and um,thankfully that misery kind of motivated me to get into therapy myselfum, and and start working to healing myself because at the time I was so afraid ofloss that I was like going out into the world protected and afraid. I was evenafraid to tell my mother that I loved her out loud because I felt like if God heard that, he would take her away, too.And I know it’s irrational, but that’s where I was. And I I didn’t want to live life likethat. So, I went to therapy and throughout my life, I’ve had more groundzeros, more unexpected things, um, earthshattering events. AndI, uh, use them to keep learning and growing. Andsome of my biggest ones have shifted into like being very intentional of like I need to wake up and and come alive.You know, I was um Can I read one more Glenn Doyle thing? I told you I’m areader. She I I had at one point I I had kind of like bought into this timewhere, you know, moms especially, but dads too, I think, you know, we’re we’rekind of taught to like you to be selfless and self-sacrificing likeyou’re honored and revered as a mom for doing that. And I was doing that. I waslike sacrificing all of my passions and dreams for my for everyone, my kids, myfamily, friends, and giving out but not getting a lot in. And um my biggestground zero was like the moment where I said like I need to come alive, youknow, for my for not just myself, but for my children. Um and she GlennonDoyle had said you know we live in a life as if she who disappears the mostloves the most. We have been conditioned to prove our love by slowly ceasing to exist. What a terrible burden for ourchildren to bear to know that they are the reason that their mother stopped living. What if a responsible mother isnot one who shows up for her children or shows her children how to slowly die, but how to stay wildly and fully aliveuntil the day she dies. What if the call of motherhood is not to be a martyr, buta model? And that’s kind of what Ive been using my ground zeros to do for mychildren and then publicly. Mhm. So, it’s interesting you’re identifying thisas a ground zero because I think it’s one that um I think when people think ground zero or these life quakes, it’slike the moment I find out about betrayal or like you talk about all of these all of these deaths that you hadto to go through and those are life quakes. Um, but you’re talking aboutthis one of like when you have kids and as a woman like all of a sudden you’rethrust into this um like system of motherhood and the way we define it. Um,and uh, I think there’s a lot of like shame and should around it of like you should be loving this and you should besacrificing and the lifequake is like wait like this is my life and I’m notloving this and so how do I how do I actually navigate this where I feelalive and I feel healthy and I feel good and and so it’s interesting that you’re identifying this as one because I thinkit’s one that most women and and I can’t speak for for women from my experience most women go through when they havechildren and their life completely changes of like what does this mean about me andwho I am and how I live my life. Um so I’m really glad you’re bringingthis up as one of your ground zeros or or life quakes. Yeah. Yeah. And um you know betrayalabsolutely is a ground zero moment. It’s like, you know, you look back atpictures and your life before and and now you’ve got this new story that justdoesn’t make sense. And it’s like one of those moments that my house is burneddown. But I always tell people the good and the bad about that burning down is

Betrayal trauma: rebuilding after your “house burns down”

that you have to rebuild, you know, and and you that’s where I think intentionis really important because you either can choose to rebuild on your own, which some people do, or if you choose to workthings out with your partner, you get to like rebuild hopefully better andstronger by by doing the work. I’m I love I’m going to back up just asecond just because I love what you said the very last part of the quote you shared becoming a model instead of a martyr.That could be in the context of what you were sharing in motherhood, but it could also be just in the context ofum really in the context of dealing with ground zeros in general. And I love that there’s room in being amodel to still be of service. Um, but to be of service in a wholehearted way where there’s something in the tank tobe giving rather than the martyr just being empty and just still feelingcompelled or compulsion to to keep giving until there’s nothing left. Um, there’s such a difference in just theapproach to that. Um, moving into what you were just saying, we’re talking about ground zeros here and and I’m I’mthinking about this, my own ground zeros, the people that we see in our in our clinics, maybe your own. There seemsto be a tendency inside of those ground zeros for for us to to almost have thenatural response and reaction to close, to to to harden, to to to go inwards, toto to shrink our world in an effort to protect ourselves. And I guess I’m justwondering like from your experience, whether it’s personal or or other ideas,how do you help navigate that process of being at the crossroads? Something is now happening. Life is falling apart.

The crossroads: closing off vs. staying open (safely)

Everything in me wants to close, wants to protect, and yet the pathway forward is kind of something other than that.How do you how do you deal with that? Like how do you navigate that crossroads?Well, I was there when I was young. Um, like I said, I did close myself. Iprotected. I was afraid, you know, I was I was a therapist long before I became a paid one. And I’d be there and I’dlisten and I’d support people. But then I didn’t open up. Like people would belike, “How you doing?” I’m like, “I’m fine. I’m fine.” And um I learnedquickly thankfully that a you don’t get a medal at the end of your life forbeing the strong one or the the one that has it all together and b it doesn’tsave you from pain. It it actually doubles it because as you’re like tryingto guard and protect your heart, you’re missing out on on beautifulrelationships and connection and all the things that I need in my life. Um, and so especiallylike with a a betrayal trauma, it is so hard a to trust yourself. It’s so hardto trust anybody. You know, your your person, the the one that you love the very most in this world and trust,they shock the the crap out of you and and it rattles your trust with him. Itrattles your or her. It it rattles your trust with women or men, depending onwho’s been betrayed, because it’s like everyone can feel like a threat. But for me, I think because I had that early onexperience of closing up through the years, I’ve like made it my mission toto do the opposite. I’ve used my hurts and my pains to become more open, more vvulnerable, more transparent, but with the right people. Like I’m I’m veryintentional. You know, I started off protected and I kind of drew in peoplewho were protected and guarded and not open, but as I’ve gone through it, I’vebeen very intentional with like who I spend time with, who I open up to. Um,but I have beautiful people who have shown up for me and I do them. And um soit I’ve used it to be open but but protected by making wiser choices.I I think people listening right now are probably asking two two questions are at least going through my mind with whatyou’re saying. One is is like okay so you you through your own experiencelearned to commit to this openness because you can realize that the pain was doubling. The first question is howdo you actually practice or exercise the muscle of that openness in a safe way? And the second question is is like yourthat your team you said you started building a team around you. I know there’s a bunch of peoplelistening to this right now going the last thing I want is a team to know X Y or Z of what my ground zero isbecause ground zero is so vulnerable. How do you how do you select who’s going to be the right team member?Well, I um aside from you guys, I my my favorite inspirations are like BneeBrown, Glenn and Doyle, and you know, my first step was like really like I readall their books. I really listened to them. And the thing I loved about them was how they were just brave enough tobe open and and vulnerable about everything in their life. And there’ssome things I choose to share with my closest people. Um, more so just becausesome of my stories involve other people that may not be ready for me to shareopenly with the whole world. But um you know what I would do iskind of like if you look at it like an onion layer, you know, you you Glenn andDoyle just dumps it out with people and she’s just like, “Hey, this is my messy world and this is who I am and peoplejust chose to gravitate toward her.” you could do that or or if you don’t feelthat safe or comfortable, if you find someone that, you know, I teach peopleabout safe versus unsafe people and the qualities to look for and if I seesomeone who looks like they have that, then maybe I’ll I’ll start with like a little nugget of of something personalin my life and I’ll just kind of pay attention to like how do they show up? Like are they judgmental?I I pay attention to see like if they’re gonna gossip about other people, they’re going to gossip about me. I don’t thatdoesn’t align with my values. So like I kind of avoid people who are gossipy andI just look for like early things to show that maybe they’re worth sharing with and then I share little and littleand then I’ve noticed the more I do that they’re more likely to share and be vulnerable with me.I’m having a like I’m having like a lot of deep thoughts that I feel like I’mgoing to railroad us here a little bit, but that’s all right. Um, let me I I’m going to do it anyways.So, I uh yesterday I watched a documentarycalled And So It Goes. And it’s a Billy It’s the Billy Joel docudocumentary. So, when you think of Billy Joel, you I mean, what do you guys think of piano man?Mhm. Dude, that guy is a musician. Like, holy cow. Um, but you watch his documentaryand it’s this it’s this I had a really interesting experience watching it because he had a suicide attempt when hewas younger. I won’t get into all of it, but he he went to the highest of highs and the lowest of lows. And just whenyou thought like, wow, like he’d learned his lesson and then he’d do it again. It was like andhis manager would steal all his money and he’d go through another divorce and his alcoholism would get worse and thenhe’d like be on top of the world playing with Elton John and like number one hitsand then like another divorce and again and again and again. And he was talkingand he’s like such a normal dude and he’s like, “Yeah, I know. I’ve been the laughingtock of a lot of jokes.” Um, butuh I’ve been through a lot, but I I still don’t have it all figured out. Andso I’m listening to him and then and and I’m watching this and I’m thinking about my own life and just the the uh cyclesof things are going really good. Things are really hard. Things are good. Things are hard. and um like knowing you guyspersonally the way that I do and watching your lives and knowing the upsand the downs and the the really hard times that you’ve hit um and yet theresilience and the battling through and and coming back and that the truth is iswe have hard times ahead. Yeah. Um and so here’s here’s my my philosophy toit all. If I zoom out, you look at it, you’re like, “What what what’s the point?”Like, “What are we doing?” If if a guy like Billy Joel, you think like Billy Joel figures it out. He gets likefamous, big hits, you know, money. He’s good, right? No. No. That dude’s like,”Right.” Yeah. Um, look, look at your lives. Look at my life. We’re all going through it. So,what are we doing? Like, what is the point? because it it seems like asyou’re talking Lisa about like getting a support system and you know gettingclose enough but being careful um in a way that like that is very smart but inanother way we can’t avoid the the uh pain and the cycles ofdistress and stress in our lives right so All right. So, what do you guysthink the point is? Like, what are we doing? I have my answer, but do you wantanything? Give us give us your theory, Lisa. Well, for me, um, you know, there’sthere’s the the different stages of grief. And when you’ve had these ground zeros,um, you know, you go through all of them, the denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance. But there’sanother stage that isn’t always mentioned, but it’s about finding meaning and purpose for your pain. And

Meaning & purpose in pain: faith, growth, and resilience

that’s what I I feel like I’ve been trying to do. Like I I’ve had a lot of ground zero.Yeah, you have, Lisa. I have. And um you know, I’ve stayed focused on my why. Like I I always talkabout Rocky and how he’s beaten down on the the mat, but he gets back up everytime. And if we have our wise, we do that. Um, and and one of my wise is likeI want to take the ugliest, yuckiest, most painful parts in my life and use itfor something beautiful. And that’s what that’s what my podcast and my work has become. Likeit’s not that I would want to go through it all again, but it’s made it have meaning and purpose and and I love toshare that. Yeah. I I’d add to that, Brandon, thatuh in the words of Billy Joel, we didn’t start the fire. It’s always burning. The world keeps turning, right?And uh and and I think that’s something like your question goes to a little bitdeeper place, you know, as I start thinking about your question, Brandon, for me, and I think about my own life, and I also think about the clients thatI have that I that kind of like grow into this like what you might call awholehearted way of living. there’s the the ground zeros don’t stop coming.Um there the ground zeros that the clients that that do the best or likethe places where I’ve done the best in my own life have been when there is not only an acceptance but an embrace of thefact that ground zeros are just a part of life along with all the other parts of life that are joyous and beautifuland wonderful. And when the perspective shifts to the ground zero being anopportunity for growth, for transformation, for perspective, fordevelopment, um life becomes the whole view of life starts to shift where youknow I look at recovery for instance, you tell you tell a brand new person who’s trying to jump into recovery from addiction and they say how long is thisgoing to take? And you’re like the rest of your life. They’re like what? like nolike ah this is miserable like no I I can’t take the rest of my life it needs to be like 3 months and then I’ll bebetter and then it’ll be all better. It’s like you don’t understand what I’m saying like you’re going to adopt a newway of navigating this world, a new way of seeing yourself. You’re going to start recognizing different parts of your identity. You’re going to use thisthat you’re going through for fuel to benefit the lives of yourself and other people. And you’re going to want to growuntil you die. Mhm. And and when you do that, your life will become full, rich, vibrant, colorful,exciting. Um even though you’re still going to have some of the painful stuff.Um but but the perspective shifts everything and all of a sudden life becomes worth living even with theground zero moments. Yeah. I always say likeI could I could have 50 reasons and they’re all legit for why I could hatemy life. Um, and there was a time where I was when I first met Brandon, I was Iwasn’t hating life, but I was definitely in like that fixed mindset of like why why did this happen? But if I wanted to,I can also find much more than 50 reasons why I love my life every day.You know, I look I’ve kind of trained my brain to whatever you seek out, you you willfind. You look for the bad, you’re going to find it. you look for the good or the beauty, you’re going to find it.What do I want to which wolf do I want to feed? Yep. Yep. I I think there’s a there’s adistinction between uh well, and really we’re talking about fixed mindset and growth mindset. Um but but even beyondgrowth mindset, there’s a belief I think where it’s like there’s a reason and wedon’t know what it is totally like we’re growing here. Mwe’re we’re like being taught we’re a and when we die I believe that there’s areason why we went through all the all the hell that we went through like and if you know there’s a reasonthen you can take what comes to you whether it’s betrayal or even likethings that that in in in our eyes are like that’s ridiculous God like come onbut you can take that and you can say there’s a reason. Like there there’s a point to this.Like I don’t know if I’d be sitting here with Tyler today if he didn’t go through some things in high school similar towhat you went through, Lisa. Yeah. Um like there’s a point. But in that moment, I remember the night that thatone of the most horrific things happened. I was laying in bed just confused and had just I was just inshock. And a as a as a 16-year-old, I’m layingthere. I have no clue that that would lead to me sitting here on our 500th andthird episode with Tyler. Yeah. Right. And yet it played a part and itwas important and we would never want something like that to ever happen again. Um, but there’s a point and Ithink that’s maybe I’m going a little too far with my theology and philosophies here, butlet’s let’s stick with it a little longer, Brandon. Like I this kind of merges into a question that I was posedyesterday, and I’ll challenge you and our listeners to think about. I don’t know if I’m fully settled on the answer yet, but it goes along with this, Ithink. If you could live a life where you were only in pursuit of knowledge oronly in pursuit of faith, which one would you choose?Faith. Yeah. Faith. I mean, for me, faith. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Me, too. Why? Why?I’ll let Brandon answer. Well, if I practice faith, I’m going to gain wisdom. Like, I’m gonna gain anunderstanding. Um, and so it’s it’s more sitting in that vulnerability and thatunknown than than trying to get to a place of knowing everything and being incontrol. Um, the grow growth happens in that faith place. Yeah. Yeah.For me, it’s what like Brandon just said. Yeah. The the growth and the wisdom I think just naturally happen.But for me, my faith, you know, my foundation in God, like I don’t know how I would havegotten through my ground zeros if I didn’t have that. Yeah. Beautiful. You guys are in thesame realm as where I am. I was sitting as I’m pondering on this is that if I if I pursue a life of cultivating faith, Iactually get both. If I if I only pursue a life of knowledge, I’m searching forcontinued certainty, but I but I never actually get to lean into like what life is,which is true uncertainty. And so with faith now all of a sudden if I’m cultivating faith and I believe thatthere is something working for my benefit, something bigger than myself, God, Christ, the universe, whatever,naturally I’m leading myself into navigating my life and my world in a way where that experience becomes valuable.Yeah. Because I have faith that there’s some meaning or purpose to it. And then I gain the knowledge as a result of livinga life of faith. And in a lot of ways, that’s kind of what I think the same thing that we’re talking about here isis how do we start to learn to embrace life on its terms.Um, and and believe that and believe that there is some bigger purpose forwhatever this all brings. I was talking to a guy struggling with adrug addiction and um it’s it’s hard when you’re you’re in that place to saythere’s a purpose to this drug addiction. talked to a a person who’s just it’s D-Day and they just recentlybarely found out their world just got shattered and alls this faith and knowledge and all this stuff alls theysee is pain. Mhm. Um, and and I like what you said, Lisa,it’s the process of grief that that really brings us back to that place of of growth and and learning through so wehave those crisis moments that that rock our world. But then if we sit in thatgrief and we we process through that pain and we face it, we we get the payout of it all. And I’ve beenlistening to you guys since you were the therapy brothers the first time around. And I know Brandon at one time you hadsaid, you know, there there is a time to before you start the whole growthprocess like you have to be in that pain and it’s okay to like when you feel likethe rug has been pulled out from under you. It’s okay to lay there for a little bit. Yes. And and it’s humanlike like here I am. I talking about I really do live and practice and preachthat growth mindset now, but I’m still human. I still have moments where Imight visit I don’t live there anymore, but I might visit that, you know, momentand and we all do. Yeah. And but it’s okay to like I want your listeners to know like when you’redown, stay down for a little bit. let yourself cry and feel all those things,but then figure out like what is my why? Like it is now my choice to like yousaid, Brandon, like things happen to us and that pain is not our fault, but but the healing is our responsibility, youknow, get up. Why? Why am I getting up? Yeah. Love it.I’ve had this uh song like I I always have songs stuck in my head, but one ofthe songs I’ve had is is the song if you’re going through hell, keep on moving, don’t slow down. If you’rescared, just keep push through it. Right. Um and and I think there’s justsomething to that is just like in those really dark hard moments.um just and I like what you said, Lisa, about stopping because I actually thinkthat’s moving through it some. So, it’s it’s a paradox because I need to stopand feel and acknowledge how painful that is so I can move on. Um but if Istop and feel and acknowledge and then I just want to wallow there and feed a victim and stay stuck there and try toget significance in my life because I have so much pain, then I don’t move through it. Mhm.Um and so it’s paradoxical of like I need to stop. I need to acknowledge. I need to feel the pain and then I got tokeep on moving. Yeah. I think there’s an energy in that Brandon that’s different when what you’re talking about. You know, likeit’s a it’s almost like it’s almost like a really big act of self-compassion whenyou’re in the middle of like the crisis to actually pause and acknowledge the devastation, the guttedness, the windknocked out of you emotionally and actually be a witness of that. But that’s a that’s a slightly differentprocess than just being wrapped up in being continually the victim to life. It’s it’s like a gift to offer yourselfto be like, “Oh, that hurts so bad.” Like, “Where does it hurt? What is that process?”Like, “What is this? What is this like horrible bitter medicine?” It’s like, you know, like what is this? And can Iacknowledge it, but can I do it with curiosity and compassion instead of justbeing stuck in it myself and then cycling through it over and over and over again? Yep. I um over on my podcast I I made acouple episodes on the angels who have blessed my life, but then I also talkabout the teachers that I’ve had. And what I said were the teachers were theones who have hurt me or disappointed me or um you know just or even like I’vehad you know I have loved ones who have struggled with addiction. One being my dad and you know he he’s one of mygreatest teachers. Yeah. you know, he he caused he was a very good loving man,but he had um addiction and mental health stuff that he never addressed andcaused a lot of pain and joy and love, you know, both. But um sadly I watchedhis life get smaller and smaller and he lost beautiful things that he loved andbeautiful relationships and it he is now like a motivator to me where it’s like Idon’t want that for my life, you know? I’m not I’m not going to let my life shrink from pain. I’m going to be thatbuffalo and and face things head on and do my own work and, you know, like beintentional with it and and you do that, Lisa. You live that way.Um, and there’s things that that are coming along trying to take you out and trying to trying to get you knocked downso far that it’s like, fine, I’ll give up. But but you don’t.Nope. Yep. Um, so I want you to this this is whilewe’re nerding out with philosophy and all kinds of things. Um, I I never knew we’d get into this stuff today, but I’veuh I’m trying to figure out the AI thing. So, I think I’ve kind of figured it out. So, I hope everybody’s listeningbecause I think we’re all trying to figure out the AI thing. And uh I was listening to two guys this this weekendand uh one was Tony Robbins and Tyler I know you listen to that too and it wasinteresting what he was saying and I’ll I’ll summarize it here but he’s basically saying there’s going to be ahuge adjustment for the market and a bunch of people are going to be displaced um in terms of their jobs andthings like that. And so how do we prepare for that and alleviate the suffering that that’s going to bring tothe world? Um, which is an interesting thought and I think it’s true. Actually,I think it’s already starting to happen. Um, I was also listening to Elon who wassaying in 15 years AI is going to be so productive that all of us are going tobe living abundantly and all of our needs will be met, shelter, food,everything, and none of us are going to have to work. Um, and so it’s it’sfascinating to listen to the like compare what the two of them are saying. On one hand, Tonyy’s saying, “This isgoing to adjust and we’re all going to have to figure it out. So challenge is going to come from that.”And so in that challenge, how are we going to learn? How are we going to grow? How are we going to adjust? Elonwent on and he said something to the point of like in that moment when wehave nothing to do that’s going to be hard because then people are going to belike what’s the point of life like I don’t have to go to work every day like now what now what do I so so the whatI’m trying to illustrate here is what what like this AI thing is it’schange and it’s going to bring shifts And it’sgoing to bring challenge and struggle and ultimately it’s going to bringlearning and um even even getting to the point where you can wake up every day andthink what do I want to do and I got plenty of food and I got being too comfortable can be a massive challenge.Right? So the point is is we will not avoid it in our lives. We can’t and wehave to choose into dealing with the reality of the pain that’s coming from whatever it is. Being too comfortable,being like totally hurt. We have to face it. We can’t avoid it.Yeah. So, so I figured out the AI thing, Tyler. Oh, well, man. Thanks, bro.Yeah. Yeah. You know what to do with that. Now, I’ll tell you the stocks to investin. Yeah. All right. I need that. Yeah. Um, yeah. So, I want to come backto maybe just another more granular thing. I know we’re getting a little bit close on time here. Um, so we’re talkingabout all this philosophical stuff. I know that people are still, but what doI do then? Like, how do I practice that? Like where would be a good starting point for saying, “Okay, I know that I’min hell right now over, you know, my kid being an addict or I just had D-Day happen or I can’t seem to climb out ofmy own hole with my addiction or like whatever else.” Like, I’m in ground zero. What would be steps one, two, andthree right now, turning this podcast off, and where would I start? Mhm.Um I I actually have my whole list here of things that I that I did. Um but Ithink the the first is just you know for me it was like reaching apoint of like surrender. Like I was talking to Brandon when he was on mine about,you know, that there’s a balance where I I have learned through the years like

Practical steps: surrender, “dailies,” nature, music, journaling, community

I’m not God. I can’t control outcomes and how things work. And it’s like I’ve reached like a complete surrender overto God, but I also again we we also have to recognize our options and our choicesand our responsibilities. So it’s kind of like embracing both things. Um, butdailies are you you guys have a term for it? Yeah, the daily charge charge. I justcall them my dailies. But like for me it was stuff like um I I feel mostconnected to God out in nature. So like I’d get out every day like we actuallyduring during one of my my life quakes or ground zeros likeBrandon helped kind of encourage me to be brave brave with my life. And um I was living in a place that I didn’t likeat all for a while. I was staying for my kids and for my in-laws who wanted us tobe nearby, you know, all these different things. And um we we made a shift. Wetried to move because at the time I had wanted to be back down south, but it didn’t work out for various reasons. Sowe’re like, “Okay, God wants us here. How do we create our best and truest life here? And so we moved to an areawhere now I’m living in a place I absolutely love, love, love. And it’s got a lot of nature and lakes. So like Iwould take my daily walks and I would listen to you guys or I would listen to another inspirational podcast or I wouldlisten to music that helps connect me with God and my strength. Um music isvery powerful. So, like I created playlists for myself. I have a playlistwhen I want to just cry it out. I have a playlist when I need to remember likeI’m a badass. I have a, you know, I have a place to remind me of like God’s got me. Um,you know, I also would like journal. Not all the time. I don’t thinkit needs to be a chore, but or I like to Marco Polo with people because it helps.I hate the phone. I don’t even talk to my own family on the phone. I like either talk live, FaceTime, or uh Marcowith them. But Marcoing is like for me it’s like a way to talk and connect whenI have the time and then they talk and connect when they do, but there’s no interruption. So it almost feels likeyou’re journaling out loud and my friends even said she’s like, “Oh, Iworked through my own issue talking about it on here because you’re processing.”Um, you know, again, I I used it to be very intentional with everything, thepeople I spent time with, really looking at who is safe, who who also supports mein addition to me being there for them. Um, you know, reading lots ofmotivational books. Um, I remember I was following a a thing called Goldcast. Idon’t know if you guys have heard of them, but they’re very inspiring myself daily with like inspiration.Uh things to remind me to keep going. Umthose are those are some it’s good stuff. I think I think whatyou’re talking about is just stepping intentionally into um taking care of yourself and lovingyourself through it. And I think as you do that, you start to um start to recognize uh the reasons why you’regoing through it, but you have to choose to step into that. Yeah. So, um this has been awesome talking toyou, Lisa. Lisa is truly she she lives what she talks about and she’s uh she’sa resilient uh person who um has been willing to step through a lot. So much.So, Lisa, where do they find your podcast? It’s called Rising Stronger. Um, and youcould find it like anywhere that you look up podcasts like Apple, Spotify, whatever else is out there.Awesome. That’s a great name. And, uh, yeah, so go check Lisa out and, um,really appreciate you coming, Lisa. Thank you so much. I appreciate having me on. Thank you.Thank you. Thank you, Lisa. Thank you to our listeners. U, we did get one comment I’ll just read. This is kind of rightalong where you were ending with. When I decided to when I decided to view surrender as my choice rather than beingforced on me, I suddenly had a lot more joy and my recovery had a clear purpose and direction.I think some of the same things we were saying. But yeah, thank you. Thank you for the comments and thank you to ourlisteners for being here with us. We hope this has been beneficial to you. If it is, um, please feel free to sharewith other people. We want to make a dent in the world any way we can if it’s for good. And um yeah, we love havingyou here with us. And until next time, keep on keeping on. Mhm.