How Do I Support a Loved One With Anxiety?

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Click the link below and comejoin us.How do I support a loved one withanxiety?What’s up you guys? Welcome to theTherapy Brothers podcast. I’m Brandon.I’m Tyler. We’re brothers.We’re therapists.We’re not afraid of your questions.So bring it.[Music]Quick review first. It says, “Genuine,vulnerable, and practical discussionsthat call you to action wherever you’reat in the process. This resource hasgiven me permission to accept where myhusband is at within his own journey aswell as myself and where I’m at withoutjudgment.”I love it.Excellent.Um, that’s what we try to promote islove and acceptance. Right.Right. Yeah.Yeah. Awesome. That’s a great review.All right. I got a question for you,Tyler. Some tough ones here. Okay. Umsometimes, you know, we we we hearthings um from our clients and thingslike that where it’s like, man, bothboth sides have have a reason for doingwhat they’re doing and feeling the waythey’re feeling. So, how like what dothey do here?Umbut anxiety is a really interestingthing. Um, anxiety disorders, thingslike OCD,um, or just a generalized anxietydisorder can wreak havoc inrelationships. Um, years ago, I had aclient whose whose wife was OCDand, um,explain what OCD is.Obsessivempulsive disorder. It’s ananxiety disorder.Um, where there’s a lot of fear andthere’s a lot of control. And I thinkmost people think of it as like being agermaphobe.You touch the doororknob 48 times.You have to touch it exactly 48 timesbefore you go in the house. Um, but itit manifests itself in different ways.Um, but other anxiety disorders, thingslike hoarding is an anxiety. It’s basedout of an anxiety disorder.Um,and so and and then just anxiety,general anxiety.Yeah. Panic attacks, insomnia. Um thosethings racing thoughts those things areanxietyanduh it’s I think it’s important that astherapists we deal with anxiety everyday.Every day.Yeah. And it’s so so common. So we justwanted to touch on it. And but herehere’s this what I was saying is she shestruggled with OCD. Umhe had gotten he’d cut his finger on anail um like two days prior. And so itwas healing and he wasn’t bleeding. Shefound out that he had cut his finger ona nail and she wouldn’t let him in thehouse. She wouldn’t let him go sleep inthe house. She wouldn’t um like want shedidn’t want him around the kids becausehis blood would cont the anxiety. It’snot rational.Mhm.Um and so he was frustrated. He waspissed off. He washe was feeling judged. She was feelingcontrolled. He was angry. Um, yet shehas an anxiety disorder,right?So, I told you these are tough ones.These are hard.So,what do you like, where do you go withsomething like that,right? Well, I think where there’s atendency to go, whether it’s inside therelationship or somebody hearing thestory is to say, well, she’s just nuts.Like,well, that’s easy to judge her,right? But but in reality and I thinkyou said this is that on both sides ofthis there’s actual human beings who arefeeling a certain way for the reasonprobably for some pretty good reasonswhether we know them or notrightand and so being able to take a stepback and look at that and I think thisis something that’s interesting aboutanxiety is is that especially anxiety Ithink depression does this too butanxiety it’s almost contagiousyeswith people where you know if I stepinto a a situation with somebody who Iwho I love and they’re they’re coming atme with this this energy level ofanxiety, I can’t help but almost have myown body come up and do the same things.And if I’m not careful, then thatbecomes its own sort of like dance thatwe do where now because I get anxious, Iact in certain ways that that are thatI’m trying to manage my own anxiety withthat isn’t necessarily helpful to theloved one that I’m that I’m trying tohelp. Itfuels it all. it actually fuels it andthen their response makes and it becomesthis thing where we amp it up higher andhigher and higher. both in yourprotective modes in the relationship nowandright and we’re in self-p protectionmode and so I think that there is someroom to say okay let’s take a look atlike what’s actually driving that let’stry to meet so in your story that youtold let’s try to meet her from a aplace of true curiosity and and re whatI what we refer to in treatment all thetime as ridiculous patience at the sametime that we also don’t want to befeeding into or selling or reinforcingor enablingenabling the the things that um thosekind of like ungrounded fears that arethere.Yeah. So, that’s a it’s a really trickysong and dance what you just described,Tyler, which isum you know, don’t take it personally.Don’t take your partner’s anxietypersonally.Um trying to force them to see how crazythey are and to overcome it and to knockit off. Um that will never work and thatwill amp it up like you’re saying.Mhm. Um, and you know, showing them howstupid they are or how ridiculous orover the top it is, that none of thatwill ever work.No.Um, a ridiculous patience will workmixed with coupled with your your realhonesty at the same time about whatworks for you and what doesn’t. So hisheart could be very empathetic, veryloving, very kind, and he could bepatient with his wife about howdifficult it is for for her to have himgo in the house with cut on his finger.Mhm.Um as crazy as it may seem. And then hehe does need to be honest that he needsto be able to go in the house and sleepin his own bed.Yes. and and he’s actually supportingher and this feels backwards to her.Supporting her to deal with her issue toto actually look at it and say, “Okay,by doing thatby doing that.”And and so, but if his heart’s at war orif he’s saying how ridiculous she is andhe’s barging in there because he’s goingto teach her a lesson,Yeah.it’s going to produce more anxiety.Right. Exactly. I think that that’s thechallenge here is is that we want tomake sure that we’re doing things forthe right reasons. And when you when youlook at um let’s take OCD that we’retalking about, but in other anxietydisorders, I think this principleactually applies too. What is one of thebest treatments for OCD?It’s it’s putting the person in thatsituation and having them learn thatlife is going to go on when when whenthe thing that they’re afraid of isactually happening. you know, it’s likeI can lean myself into and through thosethings and realize, you know, it’s likeI’m thinking about what about Bob, youknow,baby steps, baby steps, baby steps, andyou know, all and all of those things.And um and and that’s actually how westart to overcome those things is weactually overcome our fears. We actuallyovercome our anxieties by stepping intoand through those things. And if we haveif we have a safe place inside of ourrelationships to articulate what’shappening for us and then to learn toconfront those things and if we haveloved ones who are willing to say I seethat this is a big problem for you atthe same time that we’re going to leanthrough this.Yes.That’s that’s one of the best ways tohelp help an anxiety disorder becausenow that person feels supported andunderstood at the same time that they’rekind of getting pushed to say I got toconfront this stuff.Yeah. Exactly. So, if I walk into ahoarder’s house and they have a lot ofanxiety, so they’re hanging on to allthis stuff. They’re not throwing garbageaway, you know, they’re piles and pilesof it all around them. If I walk intotheir house and I I take a a garbage canand just start dumping the stuff and thegarbage like here you go. Here you go.Like that. I’m not being co codependent,right? I’m kind of being boundaried, butI’m not being effective. and in and thatI need to step into their shoes,understand them um like an increase inlove and also understand my place. Ifit’s their house and they want to hoard,they can hoard. They can live in thatanxiety. If it’s my house and it’sgarbage everywhere, then I can love themfor and appreciate them for hoardingthat stuff and having that anxiety andstill be willing to say, “I’m sorry, butwe got to throw some of this stuffaway.”Yeah, some of this still needs to go andI know how hard this is for you and Iknow how difficult it is, but we got tolook at it. I, as you’re talking,Brandon, we’re using the example ofhoarding. I got to tell you, like I usedto when I lived up in Idaho severalyears ago, we uh for our church thing,somebody was moving out. They weremoving out of our kind of like ourchurch boundaries to another to anotherchurch and they asked for guys to gohelp move. And so a bunch of guys showedup to help move and in their house theirhouse, he was a true hoarder. I mean, itwas like pathways through, you know, totry to find stuff. And we we literallyshowed up with like trash bags and boxesand we’re like, “How are we going tomove this stuff?” And we and most of itwas garbage. And then he had a wholestorage unit that was full of likenothing but like boxes of like papersand news articles and stuff just fromall over the place. And and he like welike we like open up this shed and it’slike bricked in with just this junk. AndI’m looking at it going like we’re notmoving all this stuff. And the inside ofme was like guys like we’re done. Andand then what ended up happening is isthat a lot of the guys that that I waswith, like half of them went and talkedwith him and were distracting him whilewhile half of his stuff was just like,”Guys, we’re not moving this, you know,and uh and and that was probably not themost appropriate way to handle itbecause really we weren’t respectful ofthe fact that those things for whateverreason did mean something to him.” Um atthe same time that what we should haveprobably done is been a little bit moreboundared with him.Well, it’s interesting. I So, here’s myorigins as a therapist. This was longbefore I even thought about being atherapist, but um we had a neighbor, welet’s call him Dan.All right.Um whocalled me and he’s like, “My mom’sfreaking nuts. She’s she won’t throwanything away.” And they were moving andand I don’t know why he called me, buthe’s like, “Come over here.” So, I goover there and he’s literally taking herher stuff. And I tell you what, to toanyone else, it’s junk.Mhm.And I I I I can picture this like it wasyesterday. He’s taking it and he’s like,”Fine.” And he’s throwing it all the wayinto the the moving truck and is hittingagainst the back wall and breaking. He’slike, “Fine, you can keep this and youcan keep that.” And, you know, and I’mlike, “I’m glad you called me.” And andso I I go in and I kind of talked to hismom and and she um when I talked to herand she could feel that I actuallycared, that’s all it took for her waslike, “Oh, like okay, like it’s okay.This is hard. This is really hard tohim. He’s just frustrated cuz he’s inthe thick of it with his mom with heranxiety and and he’s just sick and tiredof it.” And so I was I was able to kindof be a middleman there of like, look,we’re okay. You’re okay and we can dothiswhile he was throwing stuff in thetruck.But he actually stopped doing that oncewe kind of talked it out a little bit.So um I I I think one thing you if youapproach anxiety headon, you’ll causemore anxiety. So if you go to a personwith an anxiety disorder and you say,”You have an anxiety disorder, go gethelp. go get treatment. That’s what youneed to do.They’re gonna probably push away orfight back and just retreat from you.It’s like it’s like addiction. You go toto someone struggling with an addiction.Hey, you have an addiction. Knock itoff. Go get help. They’re going to gomore underground with it.Um where you approach it with love. youhave connection with them, but thenyou’re honest with them of like what youdo see, like I do see this as a problemand I I want to help you and oh, by theway, I found this really awesometherapistwho specializes in OCD. Um, or I heardthis thing really helps for for anxietyhere. And you don’t do it constantly,but you do be honest and provide thatsupport for for your for your loved one.You provide that open door and youcontinue to show that that’s an optionthat there are there are some ways to totake care of those things and handlethose things instead of just meetingthem with true frustration.Yeah.Right.I mean, Tyler, even as we’re justtalking about this, I’m feeling someanxiety.Me, too.Because it’s such a tricky, hardthing to navigate.It’s pretty messy. Like if you’re in arelationship with somebody, I’m thinkingof like I’m thinking of someone that I’mworking with right now that I that Ilike deeply love who really doesstruggle with just true anxiety. Andwhat what currently is happening, andthis is the hard part, is that wheneverhis anxiety comes up, and it’s usuallyaround how he’s maybe falling short as ahusband or father, or maybe there’ssomething at work that’s going on, ormaybe it’s a social situation that’sgoing to be a problem. As that anxietycreeps up,what’s happening now is that his partnersees it and it’s actually triggering inher her own anxiety and she’s going, “Uhoh, when when when he goes this way,then this is where things have fallenapart in the past.” And so, so then whatshe’s doing right now is she’s trying tolike figure out how to navigate that forherself with her own anxiety. And oftentimes it goes one of a couple of ways.It either goes into where it’s likepunitive and punishing or it’swhich is trying to control him.Yeah. or it’s into like totallywithdrawingwhich triggers his anxietywhich feels like abandonment. And it’sso hard when you’ve got your ownfeelings going on to try to find thatmiddle healthy ground where you can sitin that space and and tolerate theanxiety yourself and say this is hard.Yes.Like this is tough but this is wherewhere we’re at right now.And to not stay stuck in just okay thisis all okay. Of course it is. Like it’sreality. But when we look at like mentalhealth disorders specifically withanxiety and depression, one of the bestthings for that and this is like a thisis like a dual thing is to be met withpatience and love at the same time thatthere needs to be structure.Yes,there needs to be some type of structureand boundaries. And if and if I can holdthat kind of middle ground space in therelationship, that’s the best thing Ican do for somebody,right? So then I can, you know, so I’mthinking of like someone who’s ahoarder.Like you can’t just be like, “F you. Idon’t want to help you,right?”You also can’t go over there and belike, “Okay, every one of these istotally precious and we’re not going tolike have any problems getting all thismoved for you.”Right?There has to be some middle ground tosay, “Hey, look, we we we love you somuch and we want to help you and ourcapabilities are this big and your houseis this much stuff.” And you know, thereality is is that that the only way wecan help is at this level.Okay, I want to give you I’m going togive you a story. You’ve probably heardthis before, Tyler, and uh but it’s kindof an analogy for this becausewhether it’s addiction, whether it’sanxiety, um whether it’s deepdepression, what whatever it is, a majorproblem that somebody has, this thisthis applies to it. So, you’re atraveler. you have somewhere reallyimportant to go. Okay. So, you’re goingyou’re heading there, you’re walkingthere and uh and there’s a bridge and umyou’re c and the bridge is a huge deepravine. It’s like 1,000 ft. You’recrossing that bridge and I come acrossthe bridge at the same time and I say,”Hey, hang on to this rope and do notlet go.” Okay? And so you hang on to therope and I jump over the bridge and Ihang on to the other end of the rope andI’m dangling there at the bottom of thisrope and there’s nowhere to tie it off.You can’t tie it anywhere. You’re in themiddle of this ravine and you startsaying, “What are you doing?” Like what?Climb up the rope. And I start yellingback at you, “Don’t kill me. Don’t letgo. Don’t like don’t.” And I’m just andand your your muscles are getting tiredand what do you do?That’s a this is like that dilemma,right? Because there’s like all sorts ofprinciples of like our own morality atplay here. So I have somebody whowillfully, if I understand you right, Ihave somebody who willfully jumped overthe edge of this thing with the ropewhile I was holding other end of it. NowI’m stuck holding it with this otherhuman being on the other end. They’recapable of climbing the rope, but theywon’t climb it. But they’re also sayingdon’t don’t leave me. Like you can’t letgo of me or else I’m going to die.I am capable of climbing the rope. ButI’m yelling at you saying I’m not.No. No. Nope. Just don’t let go.Yeah. Well, at the end of at the end ofthe day, I’m only going to be able tohold on to the that rope for so long ina in a supportive role before I be Itruly do become so fatigued and so wornout and so the edge of the bridgethat we both go over together. Right.Right. If I don’t let go eventually, I’mjust going to go over with them. So atat some point there is going to have tobe some level of surrender basically.And I think what you’re maybe getting athere is is thatthere there needs to be a way to leaveaccountabilityin the court of the person who’s got themental illness to do the work. Yes.While at the same time still trying toprovide the support and the love.Um but if we if we overdo it and if wetry to actually pull that person up andwe can’t do it, then eventually we bothgo down together.Man, you nailed it. That’s it. I mean itit that that that’s the principle is andI think at times in our relationships wefeel stuck like uh there’s no goodanswer. If I hold a boundary withsomebody with anxiety that’s like medropping them off this cliff.Right. But if I hang on forever then I’mjust a codependent who’s supporting themto dangle down there and keeping us bothstuck.Right.Right.Right. And if I if I’m going to go thatroute, then I should at least be able towork myself to a place of owning thatthat’s what I’m doing so I don’t have tosuffer quite so much.Exactly.You know,um but but it’s a really tough positionto be in.Yeah.Um I’ I’ve got another former clientthat uh just to kind of illustrate thispoint, you know, they’ve got and they’reolder. They have an adult son thatthey’ve been providing for for like thelast 20 years. Not and what I meanproviding for they likethey like bought him hisfailure to launch.Yeah. Failure to launch. Like theybought him and he’s got a significantanxiety disorder. Like he’s got someagorophobia which is the fear of goingout in public, you know, and so hebasically stays hold up in his house.They bring over his groceries for him.They pay for his bills. They bought thehouse for him. Like pretty much he sitsin his house all day and watches TV andplays video games, right? and whateverelse goes on with numbing out and um youknowso and he masturbates is what probablyyou know seems like there’s acorrelation between video games and andsexualwho who knows what he’s doingwho knowsthe point the point of thethe point of the point that I’m tryingto get at here is is that those parentshave now been trying to be supportiveand I’m putting supportive quotes totheir son because they’re sensitive tothe fact that he has an anxietydisorder. Like they know they know howdifficult it is for him to even thinkabout stepping outside the house. And sowhat they’ve done is in like any goodparents would want to do is they’vetried to provide support and love forhim to the tune of basically creatinghis own prison and providing everythingfor him.Yeah.Right now. Do you blame a parent fordoing that?I don’t think so. Like of course that’sbeing done with like really goodintentions. At the same time, it’s fairto have to ask ourselves the question,how much am I actually helping here?Well, the coddling is not um loving andand you know, I I believe the bestparent example of a parent out there isGod. And and God lets us step into painand God allows us to experience the hardstuff so that we can learn. And so I Ido think it’s our job as parents to toprotect and to provide and and thosetype of things. Coddling is not loving.And and a lot of what they do, Tyler, isand just to be blunt blunt with this isthey do it not because they love him.They do it because they’re scared forthem. they’re scared um for them to feelthe pain that’s gonna comeof their son being on the streets orpossibly committing suicide or whateverit is. So, it’s easier not to take therisk and to just keep giving him hisYeah.Um and and I do believe thatum I I believe come back to my story, itis healthy to drop the rope eventually.Eventually, eventually you have to andand that’s where that’s where the ideaof surrender and God comes back too isthatin the equation that you painted in yourstory with the rope is is that youdidn’t leave you you left out that therehas to be another force here.There has to be some place where therewhere surrender can truly happen.Yes.Because at the end of the day, I can’tfixI can’t fix my clients. They can’t fixtheir son.Right.Right. They they can be a force for goodin their son’s life. if I can be a forcefor good in their lives.But we are accountable for ourselves.But we have to be we have to beaccountable for ourselves.And here’s the thing with anxiety isthat I think the outcomes in treatment,if somebody actually follows throughwith treatment, um are are pretty goodwith anxiety.Yeah. Actually, they are.Yeah. And so, and so if somebody iswilling and and it’s hard when you haveanxiety, it’s hard to go out there anddo work, do hard work. Mbut if somebody’s willing, they canreally manage the anxiety and deal withthe anxiety in a really healthy way. Umjust at at at church last Sunday, just agirl gave she’s like a 22-year-old newnew mom, just had a baby. She gave thebest talk and she said this. She said,”I have OCD and I want to talk to youabout my OCD.”Um and she talked all about her OCD. Andand one thing that she said at the end,she said, “I’ve come to a point whereinstead of fighting against my OCD, I’velearned that I have it and I can acceptit and I can learn how to manage it andbecause of that, it can bless my life.”No, that’s beautiful.Yeah. And and that that’s coming thatgives me chills. That’s coming fromsomebody who is doing a lot of work onher anxiety disorder and she’s notdangling down there having her husbandhold the rope. He he spoke next and he’slike, “Can you see how strong she is?She’s amazing.”Um,and she still struggles with itand she has OCD and but she does her ownwork and she deals with it and sheaccepts it.So that’s that’s a beautiful story,Brandon. Thank you for sharing that.Um, you guys, this stuff is hard. And Ijust I just want to to validate both ifif you’re listening and you have ananxiety disorder, we’re not sayingyou’re bad. We’re not saying you’reyou’re just difficult and like our myheart goes out to you. Um and my heartgoes out to family members and to yourloved ones andthis challenge why you have it. Um whoknows the trauma you’ve had or maybe youwere born with. Who knows why you haveit.Um but you do have a choice and you havealways a choice.Yeah. And a responsibility. And what Imean by that is a response ability, anability to respond to this. Um, you havea choice to to face it, to work throughit, to do the best that you can tomanage it. Um, or you have a choice togravel in it and let it fester and letit grow and um and so I I wouldchallenge you to get help if you do haveanxiety and to get support and to and todeal with it.Yeah. Excellent. This I know this isreally common for and probably almosteverybody listening to this episode iseither subject to some form of their ownanxiety problems or they know somebodywho’s definitely in it.Yeah.And and there is definitely both sidesto this. And so the best thing we cando, let’s go back to your um analogy onemore time, is to acknowledge that wewant to hold the rope and we also needpeople to be climbing the rope whenwe’re trying to hold it.Exactly. And and if we can step intothat space, whether we’re the ones withthe anxiety disorder hanging off theedge or the one standing on the bridge,both of us can actually grow inconnection with each other by allowingboth sides of that work to happen.Exactly. Yes.Thank you guys for listening. Hopefullythis is helpful. I know that this is areally common topic. If you guys havefound some value in this, uh, hit thelike or subscribe or please share itwith somebody else who might find somemeaning and purpose in it. And weappreciate those of you who arelistening and giving us the feedback. Ifyou have more feedback for us, go totherapyros.com.We’re constantly trying to make thisbetter. All right, guys. We’ll see you.Heat. Heat.[Applause][Music]