How does Leaning into my Emotions Help My Recovery?

Intro

How does leaning into my emotions help my recovery? Hey, Tyler.Brandon, what’s going on, man? Not much, dude. Look what you’re wearing today.Hey, I’m riding for the brand today. I’m wearing the Rising Sun staff shirt from the last uhHey, check it out. You’re wearing the old one like four years ago. This is the best one.That’s the worst Rising Sun t-shirt that we’ve done so far. Oh my gosh. you’re the the the materialof it like this this one fits well like that is that is that the one that says staff on the backthis one this one is smooth to the skin. It fits well. It’s got the great logo on the front and it has the best back. Lookat that. Yeah. Yeah. So everywhere you go, people come up to you like, “Excuse me, sir. Can you help me?” LikeI’ve had so many people like, “Does that say staff on your back?” Yeah. I’m staff at the rising sun.Yeah. But they’re like, you know, when I’m at at like, you know, Costco, they’re like, “Oh, staff. Sweet.”I I think the best shirt that we’ve had so far is the one that has like the the fractured sphere with the light comingthrough it on the back. That’s the best shirt. I I think you like the periwinkle and salmon. Like

PTSD Triggers

knowing you, knowing you, that was your favorite. We’ve uh we’ve Yeah. Yeah. I’ve been made fun of for those colors before, Ithink, actually. So, um, no, actually, actually though, it is something. It’s funny that we both wore the same shirttoday. Didn’t even really notice it or plan on it. Um, because that’s the thing that’s probably on both of our minds.We’re about, what are we just a little bit over a month out? Yeah. From the Rising Sun retreat, whichis something that we love and we would love to see anybody there that wants to come. So, if you’re interested,I think we’re on the last couple days of our giveaway. If you share any episode of the Therapy Brothers podcast and thentake a screenshot of your share, whether that’s on social media or with a specific individual from your contactsor your whole contact list, every one of those shares is an entry for the free giveaway. If not, go to risingsson.org,rising sunso.org, and you can see what it’s about. Sign up, come hang out with us in Bear Lake, Utah. I just want tosay like, you know, if you’re on the fence and, you know, if you’re bumping along and just like wanting to shiftsome things, wanting to to get some answers, some clarity, um create someconnection, like just do something different in your life. This is the thing that will jar you. It will wakeyou up. It will it will push you. Um just just take the leap. Um I don’tTyler, I don’t know. Have you ever heard of anybody who’s come who has regretted coming and spending the money and takingthe time? I’ve never talked to anybody. You know, most most of what we get honestly islike things comments like, “Hey, I’ve been in therapy for 5 years and this one weekend did more for me than the whole 5years of therapy.” Yeah. Things like, “I never expected that or saw that coming. What I actuallygot from this um this this will this changes everything for me.” So that

Communication Struggles

those are the type of things that happen there and it’s beautiful. It’s I I think it’s sacred and um we’re blessed to be apart of it and we would love you to come be a part of it with us. So So please uh if you feel that call to do it, listento it and come because we want you there. Amen. All right. Well, we have an old guest onthe show today. This is from a long time ago, Brandon. Yeah. Several years ago.And my memory doesn’t serve me well. So, uh, I’ll have to catch up a little bit because it’s been a little while, but wegot Claire Jones back on the show. Claire, welcome back. Thank you. It has been a while. It’sbeen a couple of years. Um, but I I was on a a few times. Um, I am about what,three and a half, almost four years into recovery now from addiction with um, sexand love addiction. and I’ve old episodes talk about it, but umI I’m doing well and really within the last 6 months I’ve made a lot of progress and getting some stability inmy recovery. Um but have some things with I’ve been doing a lot of emotionwork and wanted to to ask some questions about that. That’s awesome. We love to talk about

A Turning Point

emotions. So, we’re happy that you’re making progress in your recovery, too. That’s awesome to hear. Thank you.Yeah. So, fill us in, Clara. What What are you doing? What are the questions you have about emotions? What are you learning?Okay. So, I’ll I’ll give you a background on how I’m where I’m comingfrom with this. So, um a couple of years ago, I spent some time at the MeadowsTreatment Center. Um and the first thing they did when I got there was introduced me to the emotion chart. And the onethey use is it was created by Pia Melody. And what she did was group all of the emotions into eight major emotiongroups. And this was extremely helpful for me who has very little understandingor context for emotions cuz those were scary, something that we just shovedaway. Um, and so in this chart they she lists the eight major emotion groups andthen there’s a column for how they feel in the body to help kind of identify that. And then there’s another columnthat lists the gift that each of these emotions give. And as I’ve used this,it’s really been an eye-opening experience. And I’ve come to see my emotions as superpowers.And there are things that can tell me about myself and my world and the people around me in ways that are extremely umhelpful for helping me navigate the world. Um and so the first one that Ibecame familiar with was the emotion group of pain which includes sadness and grief and um hurt. Um, and so what was

What is Containment?

interesting about that one was I noticed um that most of us are familiar withphysical pain and when you get an injury, your body sends out the pain signals and it’s often accompanied bytears if it’s something significant and it’s a sign to your body that you needto address that wound and you need to tend and care for it. Um, and what became apparent was that there’s notjust physical wounds, there’s emotional and spiritual wounds, too. And so, whenI’d be sitting in my therapy, group therapy or in individual therapy, andsomeone would say something and it would elicit tears, that was a sign for me to stop. And and often the therapiststarted doing this first and would say, “Hey, what’s coming up for you?” And you guys probably do this, too.um and it was a sign that there was a wound there around something that was said um that brought that emotion up.And so after a while it became very helpful for me tonotice when I would start to cry um that I could do my own work aroundfinding what the wound is and then doing work to to tend and care for that. Umand that’s been very helpful in healing um some of the childhoodum wounds and things. Um then the next emotion that I becamefamiliar with was anger. And I know you recently had someone on here that talked about anger. And this one was veryhelpful um in helping me determine what myboundaries and my values were because that’s what anger does. Anger tells me, “Hey, your boundaries are being violatedor your values are being disrespected.” Um and for a long time, I would just letpeople run all over me. And that led to you know in a lot of abusive relationships with um my father andboyfriends and husbands and things like that. Um and so the anger became very helpful in and the gift of anger is thatit gives you strength and energy to protect yourself when you need to. Right? And so um I started to use theanger not just for protection but also to to dig deeper. So I’m feeling angry. why am I feeling angry? And um then Iwas able to identify a lot of personal values that I had. So like when um I see

Love Addiction

someone being disrespected or treated mean that makes me angry and it tells me that I’ve got internal values around umkindness and respect and individual worth and things like that. um if peopleif I get lied to that makes me angry things like that. And then I tied itinto the other two the next two emotions were grief and shame and these are the onesthat I have especially shame have questions around. So um so grief soanger tells me when my values are being disrespected or my boundaries are beingbroken and then grief tells me when I’m or I sorry guilt.Guilt tells me when I’m breaking my own boundaries and when my own values are being I’m disrespecting my own values.And then shame tells me and this is I want to qualify this. This is the family of shame. So it also includesembarrassment and disgust and and the shame emotions. Um but it can tell methat I’m breaking someone else’s boundaries or values. Um but I we have to be careful withthese because both well all three of these emotions have something called carried emotionand that’s when um someone else puts their guilt and shame on me andsays hey you should feel shame for this or you should feel guilty for this. Andthen that carried emotion is what really drives a lot of addiction problems andhas has done so for me. And so being able to navigate what emotions are internal to me and

Shame and Sexuality

what is carried has been hugely helpful. And so one of the tools that I’vemy therapist taught me was that internal guilt and shame is tolerable. It’ssomething that I can digest, I can process, but the carried emotion, theexternal emotions are not tolerable. And so when I’m feeling flooded with shameor shut down, then I know, hey, this probably isn’t coming from me. Where isit coming from? And what is the messaging? Um, and then when I do my selfshameresiliency, I can then let that go. I don’t have to feel other people’s shame. I don’t haveto feel other people’s guilt. Um, and that’s extremely beneficial for me. Um,because the internal emotions of guilt and shame, those keep me in containment.So, I’ll give an experience here. Um,so early on in in recovery, my husbandwould respond with anger a lot. Everything wasabout the the addiction and the affairs and that kind of stuff would be met with a lot of anger and this would shut medown. It would trigger some PTSD from my childhood and things like that. And soit was really difficult to make any progress with communicationum and resolving some of the the emotions around the the affairs and theaddiction. Um, and then one day he I we

Urges and Insight

were having a check-in and he umI well I had admitted that I had been tempted to look up one of my old qualifiers on social media and he lookedat me and in a very um authentic and um sincere way said, “Please don’t. Thatwould really hurt my feelings.” And that statementthen um created an opportunity for me to tieinto my values of respect and kindness for my husband. Andso every time I would have that thought to look up oneof my old qualifiers, that then became the first thought that entered into mymind was this would hurt your husband. And that helped a lot with containment.And I’ve noticed it in in other circumstances where um I’ve hadthose temptations to to fall back into old behavior. And so it was a huge game changerum to tap into that. And I’ve I’ve had these conversations with my husbandsince is that what’s very helpful is for you to to meet me with youremotions and your vulnerability um around some of my values because that

Reframing Sex

helps keep me in containment. Does Does that make sense? It makes a ton of sense to me. Uh Iappreciate you sharing this. Um, num number one, I can relate to you 100% onwhat you’re saying. It was the kinds of things in climbing out of my own hole, like with my wife, where her anger was alot harder for me to hold because it would hit my shame and then I’d have toclimb through my shame to get to what was beneath her anger. And that was hard to do. But when the few moments when shewas able to go below her anger and share the pain kinds of emotions, that was something that hit all of my valuesystem in a different way that was like, whoa, I’m what my choices have a biggerimpact on other people than I think they do. And this person that I now love, I’m directly causing all of those painfulkinds of emotions. And that made it easier for me to then go into myself and go, I don’t want todo that. like that’s not who I want to be or who I am. So, it makes total sense to me. I’ I’d like maybe for you,Claire, to just explain for our audience what you mean by the word containment because people are probably notunderstanding what what you’re meaning when you say with helping me with containment.So, um the way I view containment is just stoppingmy acting out. And so, um, if I’m I I’ve

Values and Boundaries

primarily struggled a lot with the love addiction, which is flirting and acting out with other men, um, and looking for,um, emotional connection and intrigue, romantic intrigue, that kind of stuff.And um and so containment is where I canput a boundary up and not seek for that outside of the marriage and be able toto contain that behavior. Um because it’s umaligning with with my values. Is that accurate? Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So, so if I hearwhat you’re saying, another way of saying that would be the more that I lean into understanding what’s actuallygoing on inside of me instead of running from it or trying to numb it or or get rid of it, the more that I actually learn to understand it and meet it withcuriosity, kindness, and compassion, the less I need to act out of thoseemotions. Yeah. Um, and then I I had another experienceas it relates to shame. And this one I’m still kind of trying to um to processthrough. And so um I have been raised inan environment that basically had a lot of underlying messaging that sex is bad.And um that is that carried shame um aroundanything sexual. But at the same time I was getting messaging that that well ifit’s within your marriage then it’s fine. But then there was mixed messaging which I think a lot of people have that

Naming Emotions

issue. Um, and so I had this experiencea little while ago where I had this compulsiveum, I’m trying to think how to tie this in. I had this compulsive desire to look atporn and this was a little bit unique because that pornography hasn’tgenerally been a part of my addictive process. Um, and so this surprised mewhen this hit. And so I’m I’m scrolling through some of these images and I’m asking myself, so why do you want tolook at this, why is this so compelling? And I got an answer right away thatsaid, well, look at what you’re looking at. And so I moved that whole experiencefrom my emotional brain into my um intellectual brain and started analyzingwhat I was searching and what I was looking at. And it immediately hit methat I was trying to process through um traumatic events around sexuality frommy childhood. And umso I could see this search was this experience when I was 11 and this searchwas when I was 14 and that kind of stuff. Mhm. Um and as I analyzed it, I umbecame aware that one of the that the biggest trauma from my childhood wasn’t one single experience. It was

Containment vs. Harness

being exposed to intense and graphic sexual imagery and experiences and notbeing given any context through which to process it. So essentially it was neglect. Umand so then I thought, well, I’m an adult now.Maybe I need to come up with a context in which to process all of this.And then that um process of going through. So I I talkedthrough Okay. Um, and some of your guys’s messaging influenced these these conversationswith myself. Um, so the first one is I’m a sexual being. My sexuality was givento me by the God that made me and it has a purpose. And I came up with threethings that I umsee as important to me in my life around that. And the first one is sex of coursemakes babies. The second is it fosters connection with other people. And thethird is just pleasure. And it’s for me to experience that. Um, and so then I Iwalked through and I’m like, “Okay, so with the babies, I had decided a long

Self-Acceptance

time ago that I was going to create a nest, catch any babies that might becreated from from sex, right?” And so, um, I’ve done that and I’ve been, um,that fits with my values and everything. Um, but then the second one, it’s this thisconnection with other people that that gets very messybecause sex is much bigger than just intercourse. Sexuality, as we live inour communities with each other, we bump into each other’s sexuality all the time. It comes out in the way that wetalk to each other and the way that we look at each other, the way that we touch each other, all of that. Andthat’s why every workplace has a sexual harassment policy, right? Umand so when I’m feeling lonely and disconnected in my marriage, then itbecomes very difficult to not um reach out for connection to otherpeople. Um and I this is where I I get kind of I’mtrying to work out. So any insight that you guys have would be appreciated.Yeah. If I can comment to this. Yeah. Um I I really appreciate your vulnerabilityin talking about this and and and you’re not alone at all in in these feelings.Um but it’s what’s interesting is the same principle applies to um sexualityas it does to emotions. um in that, you know, are emotions good or bad? I mean,

Emotions Are Neutral

they’re all there to protect you. Um is sexuality good or bad?You know, the the the thing about sex, sex or emotions,um they without them we wouldn’t exist. Um so we we need both. Very important,right? but also they can create um allkinds of destruction and um get out of control. And so it’s youknow the word the word containment I I don’t love the word containment when it comes to emotions and sex. I like theword harness. Um because containment has somewhat of a connotation of of like negativity oflike we got to contain this. This is but when when you have emotion or you havesexuality, this is just energy inside of you. We’ve put words to all of it. We’venamed it anger. We’ve named it grief. We’ve named it sex. We’ve But it’s energy inside of you.And if we have certain experiences aschildren, um, we start to label that energy as good or bad. That’s okay.That’s not okay. And so when that energy comes up and we’ve labeled it as bad,then we’ve attached shame to that energy, whether it’s sexuality, whetherit’s emotions. And once we attach that shame to that energy, now we now we’re starting tospin off into rejecting it, fighting against it,giving it more power. Um, we go into limbic and we just start to respond to this energy in a way where we weindulge. Um, or we we try to shut it down.And and we can use the word containment because at in with that if we can stopand get mindful and neutrally look at this and I love what you’re saying

Radical Acceptance

Claire through through a neutral lens and and I would even take it further than neutral.I would say through a compassionate lens um stop and look at it then we canharness it for exactly what we want it to be. Um, yeah. Does that make sense with withlike sex like what you’re talking about? And and where I’ve gone with this, so Ihave taken this as is removing the label of good or bad orright or wrong from sex itself. And then um because the shamewhen um when that carried shame comes in around the sexuality, we like you say,we push it away. And when you’re pushing something away, you don’t have control over it. It’s not until you embrace it that thenyou have control and you well you can get control over it. Um, and that’s beena very helpful thing for me to to process as well is I if I’m pushing thisaway because I’m scared of it or I feel bad about it or I I think it’s wrongthen I don’t have any control over it. Blair, what you just said though, a lot of people, it’s really hard to grasp, tounderstand because because we’re taught the opposite with our emotions and with our sexuality is control it, shut itdown, good or bad. And so when you when you take the leap of I’m not gonna I’mnot going to look at sex through a lens of good or bad or I’m not going to look at anger through a lens of good or bador whatever we’re talking about here. That goes against so much of the programming that we’ve been given. Andit almost is scary to actually let yourself go that far with that belief.You see what I’m saying? It is terrifying. And it’s like I’ve had this conversation with my husbandrecently and it’s been terrifying for him to hear me say some of this stuffbecause he is still in that control. Sex is is bad. It needs to be controlled. Itneeds to be harnessed and all of that stuff. But the more that I um and and

Living by Values

I’ve Claire, can I just add the way to har the way to harness it is what you’resaying is to accept it, is to know it, is to see it. Exactly.Right. And then when I put it in with my other value system that I’ve beenworking on and I this is where I’ve gone with my husband is like I still havevalues around monogamy and fidelity in marriage. just because I don’t have a amoral judgment on people having sex with each other outside of maybe my own moralum values doesn’t mean I’m going to go run off and and then startyour values acting out with all these other men. Your values still exist even if you don’t operate from a place of force andcontrol and shame. Exactly. Yeah. And it’s been such a freeing experienceto come to that realization and not have that weight of having to carry anyoneelse’s shame or guilt around any of this stuff.I can have my own and that’s why I I keep talking about the internalemotions. these are my values and they may not match up with with other um evensome of my religious teachings, they don’t match up with that and that’s okay.I still have my values. I’m going to act in my um integrity. And um

Final Thoughts

and that’s been the biggest one, like I say, is just not having to carry anyone else’s judgments or umpressure. I don’t know. So,I I love where you’re going here, Claire. I maybe just add to what Brandon and you are saying a little bit as towhy I think people are so afraid, especially in recovery, of their own emotions.Um, I think what you’re doing is a really good job of is illustrating how emotions work. And how emotions work isthey they elicit some like I’m just looking at the eight basic emotions chart that you were referencing earlier.and they elicit some kind of a physiological response in the body that then tells us we need to do somethingwith it. And it’s the doing of the emotion that often gets us into the trouble that we worry about the lo theloss of containment or whatever else you’re talking about. And for most of us, we try to run from those emotionsthat Brandon was talking about have been designated as bad. So fear, all the all the fear, pain, uh shame, guilt, thosefour that are on that chart there, um those are all things if you ask most people, they’ll be like, “Those are bademotions.” When in reality, those are no worse emotions than joy, passion, love. Umthey’re all just emotions. And those emotions come with a naturallybuilt-in action that goes with them. And most of us don’t realize that we still have a choiceto recognize an emotion and not actually take the action that comes paired with it. And the waygo ahead. Go ahead and finish. Okay. I was going to say I was going to say the way that the way that you actually take in essence control of youraddiction because addiction is a mismanagement of emotion to where you’re acting outside of it all the time is toget to know those emotions so well that you just like Victor Frankle says you expand the space in which you now havethe stimulus of the emotion and the choice of the response and knowing your emotions and then lap then then havingthe recognition of those emotions and then laying your values over the top of It moves it from a good or bad kind of athing to a what’s going to be most effective with what I’m feeling right now choice.Exactly. And it’s and every emotion should have a response to it, but theresponse is something that that I get to choose, right? And it may not be what umis immediately apparent. So if I’m feeling anger and I can identify wherethe anger is coming from then like I can say say someone is is crossing myboundary I can then analyze do I need to do something about this or can I let it go and then that gives me it empowers meto make that choice but if I disregard that and especially like fear if I throwthat out and I don’t honor that then I’m dishonoring myself by not payingum those emotions the attention that they need because they’re there for a reason. Um and sometimeswhere they’re coming from isn’t it needs some some thought process around to find out cuz sometimes it’sbeing triggered by something that’s not accurate. Especially if you’re dealing with past traumas and things that um arecoming from childhood and they’re not actually threats in in the present. Um but yeah,it gives it g it empowers me then to make a choice around that emotion. Umand if I don’t if I disregard or push it away, then I’m it’s just getting storedin my body and then it will come out in other ways. But if I can honor it andidentify it, then I can process it and I can digest it and it umdoesn’t come back to haunt me, I guess. All all emotions and sexual feelings arejust um some windows into who we actually are. Um and and they’re they’reindicators of that. And but but we stop short of getting there. We we don’t likewe don’t go far enough to to understand that. We and and we throw a judgment onon those things. And you know it’s to to be a conscious powerful human being. Dowe get there through self-rejection or through self-acceptance?What do you think, Tyler? You already know the answer, Brad. Ofcourse. Of course it’s through self-acceptance. I actually believe that that radical self-acceptance is the keyto the happiest life. What you just said is is so true. And yet most peopleactually believe the the other they they live in the other narrative. They live in the narrative of the worldtelling you you’re not enough. Yeah. If I feel anger as a woman, we talked about that last week. I shouldn’t. If I feel these sexualfeelings, that’s I’m bad. If I feel So that we’re constantly self-rejecting andtrying to to get oursel in the box of what I should be so that I can have acceptance in the society and world thatI live in. And then we and then we lose our power. We live in fear. We we livein force and control and we lose our power. And everything Claire’s talking about is and and and an addiction, bythe way, is like the ultimate example of that. Um because eventually you’re just numbing your life out because you’reself-rejecting so much. And everything Claire’s talking about is the recipe forstopping and one loving yourself, but also knowing yourself and stepping intoyour power. Um I I I love everything that you’re saying, Claire, and I can Ican hear the work that you’re doing. You’re doing the right kind of work in your recovery, and it’s it’s reallybeautiful. And it’s a process of self-discovery, right? and selfacceptance.And I want to add another thing in here that’s come out um that you guys havetalked about before as it relates to shame and sex. Um and you guys talkedabout the the arousal template and how we don’t always control what’s on that.There’s things that show up there that are way outside of our value system thatare um even can be disgusting to us. Umbut we don’t have to to act on that and when we when I can come to and I’ve thisis conversations with my husband too like I can acknowledge that that’s therecuz there are things on that that in the addiction world you know my addictionexperiences um I’m trying to think how to how to word this but when I take the thejudgment out of that and just acknowledge that it’s there But I if I’m acting in my values, that then doesn’tbecome something that I have to shame myself over or umyou can get to know you can get to know yourself. Yeah. And again, it’s it’s acceptingthat’s that that that’s there. Then you get control. Um, and II’m trying to think of how this because this get I mean it can get really you can really do a lot of deepwork with that that can be very scary um when you step into that realm ofaccepting things about yourself and the the darkness and the possibilities that you’re capable of doing.Um, and acknowledging and accepting that that’s there can be terrifying.But when you do accept it, like we’ve been saying, then you can make choices around it and it isn’t. And the fearthen tends to go away around it.That’s that’s right. It it kind of what you’re saying is it sounds a lot likethe Carl Jung shadow work or the IFS parts work where accepting that part ofyou doesn’t mean acting out in that part of you. It means knowing that part of you, understanding what’s driving it,understanding what’s behind it, and then still being the person who gets to make the choice because that part isn’t quiteas loud because in a sense, the acceptance and validation that it’s there unbburdens it.And then it doesn’t want to go and act out of the container, so to speak, as much because it doesn’t feel threatened.It doesn’t feel like you’re trying to kill it. It doesn’t feel like it’s, you know, not being heard or seen. And it’sjust like any of us once we’ve once we’ve been understood and feel like we’ve been heard, we instantly have ourour own physiology come down and feel like, okay, like I’ve been validated.Yeah. And I’ll I’ll give one more emotion umthat I had no concept of when I first started this work, and that’s love. Andwe were asked to paint all of our emotions in the the treatment center. And I painted all of them, but I couldnot figure out what love was or how that felt or anything. And um it’s just beenwithin the last 6 months that I’ve started to understand that. And love, the gift of love is connection.And so that’s become very helpful in when I’m feeling connected to my spouse,that’s when I know, oh, I’m feeling love. And that sounds really um basicmaybe. Um, but growing up in a environment where love wasscary and not shown at all with a lot of neglect, it’s no wonder that I don’thave any concept of what that is. And when I was trying to explain this to my husband, he got a little bit offendedlike, “What? You don’t love me?” And I um just had to explain, “No, it’s notthat I don’t love you. I all of the actions that I do for you around thatshow that that love’s there. I just don’t know how to feel it. Mum and so I think there’s umI do have some you guys have called it alexathyia where you have difficultyum feeling or processing emotions and um so this is partly why thatemotion work has been so important for me is because I’ve had to go back andand be that child that’s learning abouther her herself and her emotions and who she isas a person, but it’s been so healing and you’renever too old to do that. I’m just celebrated my 53rd birthday.Happy birthday. I love it. Thank you. I love it. Claire, I love what you’resaying, too. Just looking going off of the P melody chart that you’re you’ve been referencing this whole time. It’sinteresting to me that the gift of love, which to me is the most sustainable energy for a wholehearted recovery.That’s the that’s the lifeblood of recovery is cultivating love in all of its forms. Um she puts down the gifts ofthose things as connection, life, and spirituality.And um I I tend to agree with those things that that’s what that’s what wholehearted recovery is is a life whereyou’re having connection. You see the vibrance in life in all of its forms both positive and negative. And you canlive because you trust yourself to manage your emotions with life as it comes. And then it’s interesting thatspirituality according to Pia Melody here is it runsthrough love which lines itself up really well with the Christian perspective of God being love as well.It’s beautiful. I love I speaking of love I love whatI’ve heard today. Um I uh Claire Claire you’re you’re awesome and talk aboutwilling to do your work. um you know, a lot of this simply put comes down toum like just observation and curiosity and and just getting to know yourself.And that’s what I see you doing through all of the the addiction, through all ofthe the pain that you’ve been through. Um, it really is Tyler and I talk aboutall the time that through your through your wounds is where the light entersand um I see you taking an opportunity to allow it to enter um because you’vebeen through so much and um I really appreciate your example of somebodywho’s willing to observe non-judgmentally and get curious with yourself. And um that’s what recoveryis. That’s what recovery is all about. So, thank you for coming on today. Really appreciate you coming back.Thank you. And thank you for taking the time to have this conversation with me.Yeah, we would love to. Just before we started recording, you mentioned that you might your husband might be willingto come on with you and we would love to have you guys come on as a couple sometime and continue to see and hearand be a part of the journey that you guys are on. It’s it’s really awesome. And you’ve you’ve come and offered agift today, Claire. So, thank you. Yes, we would be happy to do that. Thanks.Yeah. Um, so I just I want to share one quote or one comment that was made onYouTube and it says, “This is a really important topic and Claire is a very brave Claire is very brave to show upand discuss this. Owning emotions and talking about anger is so beneficial.” So already we’re getting feedback frompeople saying thank you and um if this was helpful please share it and u pleaseleave a re a review and you can thank Claire in a re in a review and until next time keep on keeping On.