Why Am I So Afraid of What Other People Think of Me?

2026 is going to be an awesome year. We got some pretty cool stuff coming up. First off, we got Foundations ofRecovery. This is our flagship program. We’re starting it in January. This is for anyone, man, woman, or couple whowants to come and reclaim their heart from shame, trauma, and betrayal. We start off with an education on all sortsof principles. Give you the common language. We feed you from a fire hose in terms of all things recovery. It issuch a great start to recovery. And we get to the roots of things, Tyler. This isn’t like any other program. Like, thisis our healing journey in process. And Foundations is where we begin. If youlook at the value that you’re getting there to kick off a good recovery with all of the right education, all of theright language, and a team to get you started while also being directed by Brandon and myself through the wholeprocess. What a deal. So, we if you’re interested, if you’re struggling, if you’ve been wanting to do something fora long time, jump into this. This only comes around every so often and we would love to have you there. Click the linkin the description to sign up for it. And to make it even sweeter, we’re also including a raffle for a free pass tothe Radiant Dawn retreat. Anyone who signs up for foundations will be added to the raffle for that free radiant dawnpass. If you’re a man and you sign up for foundations, your name still gets entered and you can give that pass awayif you win it to any woman that you want to. So, what you’re saying, Tyler, is if you sign up and participate infoundations, you could possibly go to Radiant Dawn for free. That’s exactly what I’m saying, which iscrazy because Foundations by itself is already an insane value. Man, I sound so salesy,but it actually is awesome. So, come like come to Foundations. And even if you don’t come to Foundations, sign upfor Radiant Dawn. I It’s beyond therapy, the best healing experiences that you can have. Click the link below and comejoin us. Why am I so afraid of what other people think of me?What’s up you guys? Welcome to the Therapy Brothers podcast. I’m Brandon. I’m Tyler. We’re brothers.We’re therapists. We’re not afraid of your questions. So bring it.[Music]All right, Tyler, that’s a good question. Um, before we answer that question, I got a quick review here. So,it says, “I would love more things like this, things, you know, as experts help us figure things out on our end withourselves and our relationship.” Awesome. To the point.Uh, appreciate it. That was really awesome. Thank you. Well, Tyler, we just got back from uh awe a marathon trip, huh? It was a marathon trip. It’s the problem with the world we livein today. I guess it forced us to spend a weekend together, which was great. I really enjoyed your company. But, uh,so Brandon, you guys, for so everyone listening, Brandon like came up to actually shoot the podcast with me lastweek in my office. And then when I said, “Hey, what are you doing the rest of the weekend?” and he said, “Oh, I’m actually leaving straight from your office todrive all the way up to Oregon to pick up two cabinets from IKEA because apparently apparently IKEA wasn’t goingto have those cabinets in stock till like July and you’ve got a house you’re trying to get remodeled and rent it out. So, you’d have to wait till July or we’dhave to go to Oregon and pick up two cabinets.” Yeah. With Apparently with COVID, everybody’s redoing their their kitchen.So, I had to hunt some cabinets down. Yeah. But it ended up being an awesome blessing because it got me and Tyler ina car alone. And truth is, we we laughed most the time and just had a good time and saw some wildlife. We saw a herd ofelk and a a big horn sheep walking along the side of the road. So it was sweet.It was it was awesome. I had a great weekend. So thanks to Tyler. No, it was it was a good time. We uh itkind of does, this isn’t the topic of our episode today, but it it definitely reminded me of the power of having goodpeople in your life and shared experiences. And even though we were mostly in a car and ended up sleeping ina in a motel that neither of us wanted to actually sleep on the bed,it was a good time. Yeah. A little bit sketchy. Yeah. So, speaking of good people inyour life, um today’s episode’s a little different. uh first time I brought on agood friend so as a guest and um he’s the man. So this is Bevon and he umwhere do I begin with him? He’s I’ll I’ll let him introduce himself some but he’s he influences people and he hereally if you get to know him and know his heart then it it’s good for you. Umand so I be I’m I become better friends with him and uh I was talking to him. Iwas like, “Hey, like you do something vulner vulnerable. Come on our show. Let’s talk about some of your stuff.”So, uh, here he is. He’s got the courage to do it. And, uh, we’re going to dive in some into some questions. So, Bevon,is there anything you you want to say to kind of introduce yourself or let people know who you are? Yeah, I mean, I uh, my wife would tellyou right off the top of her head if someone asked her uh, the who Bevon is, she says, “A guy with a lot of passion.”Um, I do have a lot of passion and it works for me and works against me. Have about 26 years in the financial servicesindustry. I’ve been a a wrestling coach, football coach. I’ve been doing that the as long as I’ve been in my my myfinancial practice. At heart, I’m a coach. I love coaching people. I love coaching kids. I do a lot of leadershiptraining as well. Um, but as I coach, I like being coached. So, I’m trying to get more out of the meeting than I’mtrying to give back. Um, so I I always looking to improve and definitely havemy sticking points and things that I need to overcome and work on as well. I’ve recognized over the years that fora guy like myself, even though I do a lot of coaching, you can’t see the picture when you’re in the frame.So, I always try to look outside of that for other coaches to work with me and that’s where I’m at. So, Bevon, we’vebeen talking about um some We’ve been talking about how you’re kind of dipping your toe in a little bit. Andwhat we mean is like we know there’s passion. We know there’s purpose. I know inside of you there’sthere’s there’s a purpose, there’s brilliance, right? And you know that, too.But there’s a part of you that’s like, I don’t want to go for it. I I don’t like I’m kind of scared to to actually putmyself out there. um and to fail. And can you just talk about like what whatare some of those fears? What what’s holding you back? Um you know, I don’t want to let peopledown and uh had a major debacle in 2008 where I felt like that happened. Um andI think a lot of this probably stems from my childhood. you know, as as I look back to over my life and thepatterns and behaviors I experienced today and the patterns and experiences or uh behaviors that I was doing when Iwas a young man, there a lot of them are still the same and uh and for whateverreason that fear of what others think of me or um fear of really going for itbecause of what others think. Right. Tyler, do you have a question? Yeah, Bevon, I if it’s okay. And youknow, I’ve never met you before and I just wanted to maybe get a little bit of your backstory and you can share as much or as little as you’d like. Um, butthinking about that idea of being afraid of what other people think of you if you were to kind of trace back as best youcan, like where did you learn to have that fear? Like what what kinds ofthings have gone on in your life that have caused you to have such a deep fear of what other people think of you? youknow, I don’t know if I could pinpoint it. Um, I grew up with a I wouldn’t saya bad childhood. I think we had a pretty good family, but it was definitely um more uh right in your face. Um, if youmake mistakes, you’re going to know about it. Um, and I think a lot of times I didn’t maybe I didn’t have the the thelove that I was seeking by my parents. I I I don’t know know but I I look backwhen I was a kid and some of the behaviors I experienced then and I remember as a young boy I would cryquite often. I was a little bit of a baby. I used to I would say if if I my boy was like that smack him around. So Ijust did step it up. But I I think I was I was I’m the youngest of three. I havea twin brother. Technically he’s an hour older. So that makes me the youngest. But um so and I might have been raisingbeing raised with him. My parents got a divorce when I was in the fifth fifth grade at the time. Um, and I think thatprobably affected me at some level, but uh I don’t know. I’ve always uh wasseeking some sort of acceptance for whatever reason. And so, can I can I Iwant to kind of connect the dots a little bit, Bevon. So, and and tell me if I’m off on this. Sure. It’s uh you know from a youngyoung age it’s well I I like what you say like I can’t quite pinpoint it. Maybe it’s a culmination of things. Umand it is I I don’t think I mean you could probably find certain experiences in your life where it’s like that thatwas like hard. Um but overall it was just like man I want to I I don’t want to let peopledown. I don’t want to fail. Um, so here you are as an adult and I I justwant to kind of talk about the shame right now and the fear right now. It’s saying, look, II know I want purpose. I want to go for things, but I I’m not going to do itfully because of what what might happen. Um, I might fail. I might, you know, uh,hurt somebody because I didn’t I gave them the improper advice or the actionsI took didn’t serve them at the level of my expectations. Yeah. So, but but in in turn, what thenhappens is when you when you sit on the sideline and you don’t put yourself in the game,um, you know, I I think I was giving you an analogy. you’re you’re a wrestler. And I was saying, you know, what if whatif you were a talented wrestler and you knew you were a talented wrestler and you were you were the coach of this guy,right? And you know he’s a talented wrestler, but he’s too scared to get on the mat and wrestle because he’s worried that hemight lose the wrestling match. What would you say to that to that kid? I would tell him just to go out and behimself and forget about what anybody else thinks. Right. That’s easy to say, right? It’s very easy to say. Yeah. Yeah. But so so if it’s so easy to saylike hey go get on the freaking mat like go do this then then why don’t you beagain it goes back to the fear of what whatever other others think. So I’m tr what I’m trying to do and andand really flush out is how um paralyzing that fear is. It’s soautomatic. Yes. and and we we’re it’s actually designed inside of us because we’rewe’re we’re we’re designed to to protect ourselves for survival reasons and and and what we what we know helps us withsurvival is attachment and connection. So, we want people to think we’re good and to like us and all those things.So, in order to heal this shame, you have to actually do the opposite of whatyour natural instincts tell you to do, which is your natural instincts say, “Hey, play small.” put on a show. Don’tput yourself out there. Um because people might not like you.And you have to look that in the face, that fear, and learn how to step onto the mat. Tyler, do you have anyYeah, I got maybe a couple of thoughts on another couple questions for you, Bevon. Um as you’re talking, I’m stilljust trying to fully understand what you were saying. and and what you kind of said in um why you’re afraid is thatthere’s maybe two two prongs to this. You’re afraid of re being rejected if you fail some somehow somehow failuremeans you’re not going to be worthy of love or you’re going to be rejected. But you also said something that I think is pretty insightful as well.Part of the reason why you’re so afraid of failing is that you’re afraid that your choices if you fail will hurt thepeople that you love. That’s part of there’s there’s a lot more there’s a lot more writing on thisthan just like, “Oh, bummer. I messed up.” It’s like, “No, I I I honestly feel like my choices could have a negativeimpact on the people that I love. And as a result of that, not only will I have hurt them, which I can’t stand thethought of, but I also will then make myself less likely to be worthy of love and attachment and connection.” Is thatkind of what you’re saying? Yeah, I think it goes a little bit more. I think I’m an athlete. I so I’m a competitorand the ego’s in the way as well because you want to look good, right? And youwant to you want to and and you want to be praised for the right reasons, for the right things, and you don’t want theopposite. At least I don’t, right? And and those critics that may say thingsabout you that aren’t true. Um some of those things, and I understand as you climb that ladder, that’s going tohappen. But it’s still uh an area of something to work. But but Beavenon, andyou don’t have to get into the specifics here, but some of your trauma as an adult, um has been all about lettingdown your wife and your family, right? And so you’ve experienced something thatwas a really bad experience. Right. Right. And it’s like and and back then you weregoing for it like you were and and you went for it and it blew up in your face. Yeah.For sure. So, so why in the world would you do that again? Right. Right. So, now you’ve got really good atsaying, “Look, I I know how to live my life. I know how to protect myself from experiencing something like that again.”Right. Right. But but that it’s really it it’s causing problems now. Right. Well, look at the look at the look atthe hell that you’re creating for yourself if you’re if you’re living this way where Bevon, you’re on one hand,you’re saying, “I’m a guy who wants to be allin. I’m a coach. I’m telling my guys to do this.” And then on the otherhand, I’ve been kicked around by life a little bit to the point that now I want to sit on the sideline, but my truenature is to be in the game and to be like telling other people to be in the game. And it’s like what is what is theprice? What is the cost of living the way that you’re currently living?The cost is huge. The is huge. Well, and not just to you, Bevon, but tothe world. That’s what I’m Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, okay. So, we recognize the cost ofsitting on the sidelines, but I still don’t think we’re getting down to it here of, okay, you’re good. You’re you’regood at dipping your toe in. You’re good at at at looking good enough, but notfully going there, right? Mhm. Um what it’s almost like the poser syndromelike you and I have talked about like I’ve noticed there’s times when I’ll do something great and when I say great uhyou know like good good feedback and I know okay that we’re going somewhere with this and then I’m like wait wait wait asecond I don’t want to them to see my mistakes or my my uh uh behind thecurtain so to speak what I don’t know so I’m just going to stop right there. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I I just think, youknow, I see people do things sometimes and I’m like, what are they doing? You know, like I don’t know whether it’s like peopledancing on YouTube or starting new businesses or whatever it is. It’s like, are you serious? Like, holy cow. And andI judge them, right? Um, but there’s another part of me that that’s always there and and I believethis is, you know what, if they if they feel like that’s them, good on them. eeven if it looks goofy or crazy or stupid or whatever, at least they’re at least they’re doing, right? At least atleast they’re out there, you know? So, you can’t fall like we were just laughing, me and Tyler, uh a friend ofours gave a TED talk and Tyler, why don’t you tell the story a little bit?Oh, man. It’s awesome. like it’s really cool to kind of see the whole big picture, but basically when he was incollege, he had a project that he wanted to put together and he put this project together and then he applied to be on aTED talk at the college he was attending and he got a TED talk and so he gets into the TED talk and about halfwaythrough the TED talk he kind of loses place with his lines and it’s like basically it’s like everybody’s worstnightmare about public speaking. It just goes like silent and then the video like pans away to the crowd and the crowdlike awkward cringing like, “Oh man, this poor guy.” The crowd felt sorry for him, you know, like it was just it was abrutal it was a brutal hard thing for my friend and um and it’s now out therefor, you know, like the world to see. He’s on stage with the world to see with this with this failure. And uh it waskind of cool because that was several years years ago. I had been over 10 years ago that that that experiencehappened. Well, we just had a conversation with this friend just really recently and it kind of came up and we were joking about it like, “Ohman, like you know, at least we’re making fun of him a little bit. We’re ribbing him a littlebit.” And then he said something really insightful and I thought, “Man, what an awesome attitude.” He said, “You knowwhat?” He said, “I can’t wait.” He said, “I’ve been working on this.” and he said, ‘I can’t wait to be such adistinguished speaker that in one of my speeches, I’m going to pull that clip up and show the difference between who Iwas and who I am now. And uh and that was like, oh, that guy’s in the arena oflife. Like, he’s he’s embraced the fact that failure is is really one of theonly vehicles that can get him to the destination he wants to get to, right? And and if we were to look atthis like from a bigger broader perspective, Bevon, I think this is something we lose sight of sometimesbecause we have this acute pain that happens when things fall apart. Man, I don’t even know what happened in your life eight years ago, but it sounds likeit was devastating for you. Um, it’s natural for us to then want to pullback and protect ourselves and get on the sideline, but the truth is is that we came to a world that was designedfirst and foremost for our learning. And our learning comes through experience,right? And we can we can let our lives completely pass us by never getting theexperience that we were actually designed to get because we’re so afraid of pain instead of acknowledging thateven in our relationships like I know you must have put your your wife and your kids and family through hell. Itsounds like in addition to whoever else was affected, you know, and um the truth is is that whether you meantto or not and we know you didn’t mean to, that’s also now part of their experience. It’s also givingopportunity. And and I remember hearing a quote by someone that said um thesample of humanity that is around you currently constitutes your clinical material of what God’s given you foryour learning. And you happen to be that material for somebody else. We’re each other’s material here right now. Um thepeople listening to the podcast, the people around you right now, they’re there as your clinical material so youcan do your learning and growth. And if you if you don’t throw yourself into that game, you not only deprive yourselfof that growth, but you deprive everyone else around you of that opportunity to grow.Right. Yeah. You know what? Going along with what Tyler’s saying, Bevon, I I want to askyou a question. Um, I I I worked hospice for a while and so I was on like atpeople’s death beds every day and and and uh I I got to see them lying there and I actually watched severalpeople die and um and and it really kind of rocked my world andum you know and and so just saying that you know when you’re there do and let’ssay you’re you’re trapped in your own mind for a few days before you die um what do you want to think man I gotreally good at surviving after I messed up. I got really good at at protectingmyself. Will you be laying there thinking, “Man, I survived.” Or thinking, “You know what? I I lived. I II lived. I put myself out there. I failed. I succeeded.” Um, and you know,what do you want? What do you want to feel then, Bevon? I don’t want anything left in the bag. There you go. Oh, I mean at the end ofthe day when I look at my death, but I was thinking about this not a few days ago actually like a good friend of mine.He lives his life. I mean the dude lives his life. He puts himself out there. He puts himself out there and just doesn’t care. He just goes for it. Andhe lives an amazing life. And I and he’s he’s taught me that, you know, I’ve been so driven to succeed to succeed succeed.But I never took the time to celebrate and, you know, and and live life, right? I I kind of backed myself into acorner and said, “This is who I have to be and this is what I have to do to be that.” Right. And it’s not true.That’s not true. And and so going forward, you know, I’m thinking that, you know, I want to be onmy death, but I don’t want to lay there and thought, “Crap, I was just a scaredy-cat my whole life.” Right. And right now, that’s the path I’mheaded down. I mean, like you said, I dip my toe in the water, do some a few things here and there, then boom, I pull with the foot back out. So, okay, that’sgood enough. Well, what’s interesting, Bevon, is you’re kind of a dichotomy to me because if you were to look at yourlife from a, you know, a 30,000 foot view, I could say like, “Holy cow, Bevon’s doing good in the world.” Like,he’s it’s not like you’re sitting in your basement depressed and shut down and and never wanting to connect withanybody. Right. So, so you’re you are out there, right? Right. But I think I almost I almostfeel like it’s more internal than external in that then it’s like you know there’s more in there. There’s morepurpose. There’s and so on that there there’s the externalities of you showing the world like hey look I’m good. I’mdoing a lot of good things. Can can you see me? But it’s not full wholehearted living.Right. Agree. Um so so it’s not that you’re not doing any good. It’s not like you’re like you’re going to be lying on yourdeathbed thinking like life sucked and I didn’t do anything, you know. Um you’re you’re an amazing husband. You’re anamazing grandfather and father and and those things are in place already.Mhm. And I think you’re honest enough to say and I’m not fully stepping into mypurpose and I don’t fully realize what it is because I’m getting caught up in this fear.Right. Yes, I do think I know what it is, but I’m not stepping into it.Okay. So, so you know what it is, but that that’s almost even more painful. It is very,right? Because it’s like I see it, I visualize it, I understand it, and I’m scared to do it.Yeah. Yeah. What What is it?Boy, I don’t know. just I could tell you when I when I’m in my element, when I’min my zone is either a when I’m on a one-on-one with a client or when I’m inon the football field or wrestling room coaching kids, I don’t think, I just go. And when I’m when I’m just going andjust doing um I’m I just feel so energized and so fulfilled. Even thoughit is taxing, but when I get done, I go home, I’m like, “Wow, that was that was an incredible day. That was anincredible moment or last two hours uh however long that practice uh is at that moment but it definitely sets me free.Okay. So, so what what’s different Bevon? What’s different in your coachingslash I guess both kinds of coaching? What’s different in the way that you approach those things versus these otherparts of your life? That’s a tough question. Um,I I don’t feel like I have the systems in place, the value to truly bring goodvalue to the table. Um, and confidence.Yeah. So, to to me and and Bevon and I have talked about this, right? There’s aan excuse, right? Right. There’s a I need I need to have everything in place in order to in order to put myself outthere. Um, and and and it’s interesting you actually answered your questionbefore Tyler asked it, which is you said, “When I’m coaching, when I’m out there, when I’m just flowing, right,I’m free. Um, I I am free.” And so when you’re not flowing, whenyou’re holding back, when you’re not stepping into what God has made you for, then what are you?If you’re not free, then what are you? and pain. Oh, that’s a good You’re in pain.Yeah. You’re trapped. And and you’re not facing the pain. And then you go and then if at least forme, then you just shame yourself. You go to that what I call the caric culde-sac where you just keep shaming yourself and repeating thesespiraling stuck. Yeah. And you just can’t get you just seem to get be caught in that whirlwind.Right. I was talking to a group of mine this week and and uh two of the womenthey they checked in and they just said, “I’m stuck. I’m stuck. I’m stuck.” and and they were stuck in different ways. Um, and a lot of it had to do with theirrelationships, but one was saying how hopeless she was. Another was saying how frustrated she was.And I said, “You know what? There’s one thing that gets you unstuck. Everysingle time it’s the same thing gets you unstuck.” Um, do you guys know what thatis? Doing. It’s not. It kind of is doing. Tyler,any guesses? That that was my my thought and response too was take take a firststep, take action. Yeah. So So you guys are talking about the actual manifestation of it. But it’sit’s facing fear. Fear is the thing that that shuts you down. So even a hopelessperson is like, “Well, I’m hopeless and my relationship will never change, so I’ll never be happy.” Well, maybe theyneed to face the reality and the pain and the fear that maybe their relationship’s not going to work. andthen they can be unstuck. Um, so re relating this back to you, Bevon, whenwhen it’s like, man, I’m I’m I’m in that culde-sac and I’m spinning and I’m going that, you know, the pathway out isthrough fear. And um, uh, Marshall Lahan, one of my favorite sayings is thepathway out of hell is through misery sometimes. And instead of facing the misery, we fall back into hell,right? So, so when we turn and we face the pain, we face the fear and we say,”There it is. I know what I’m so afraid of.” That’s when that fear or those demons or whatever we want to call them.All of a sudden doesn’t have power because we’re like, “Bring it. I see you. I know you. I’m not scared of you.So, bring it. Let’s do this.” And you’re not spinning anymore. Right? Unconsciously, you’re not spinning.You’re conscious of what that fear is. You’re conscious of what it’s trying to do to you, how it’s trying to shut youdown, and you’re like, I’m not going to I’m not going to give that the power, right? Yeah. Um I’m Brandon, as you’re talking,I’m Bevon, I I want to tell this story just basically as a way to empathize with what you’re saying because I thinkwhat you brought up about that fear and that paralysis is just something that we all experience.Um I we I have a friend who he’s learned in his life that fear is his biggestenemy because it causes that paralysis and suffering. And so he’s created something for himself called hisvulnerable series. And uh he basically listed out all the things he’s most afraid of and he’s one by one purposelydoing those things and he’s documenting them which is pretty amazing. And so likelike right now he’s working on standup comedy of all things. I’m like oh my gosh like I I couldn’t get myself to godo that. And um and then I started thinking well what’s one of my own vulnerability things? And and you know what? What we’re doing right here, thispodcast is one of those things for me. I Brandon said it. Brandon has another podcast that has a big big followingnow. He’s got a big platform. He’s got a lot of people that he’s helping right now. And I was watching him do this asthis was growing on his other podcast. And I kept saying to myself, I’m going to get into a podcast. I’m going to start a podcast. I’m going to start apodcast. But then I started saying all those things that you just said. Well, I got to have the right microphone and I don’t know the technology properly and Ineed to make sure it’s all perfect and the sound is awesome and and we’re going to video it too. So, I’m going to have to get set up a whole studio. And prettysoon I talked myself right back into paralysis. And that happened for probably two or three years until untilBrandon came to me and said, Tyler, like let’s do this. You know, I’m like,the fears and let her rip, right? We don’t have we don’t have the equipment. We don’t have this, that, and the other. Hey, get on the computer andstart talking, you know. Well, it’s interesting as you guys say this because if I were to talk one toone of my athletes and they were saying, “Well, coach, I can’t run a 4440. I don’t I don’t bench 300 lb yet, etc.,etc. I got to do these things before I get on the field or before I get on the mat.” It’s like, what do you what the heck you waiting for? Get after it.Yeah, exactly. Like, it will come. Just get after it and learn as you go. Do do you guys uhWell, I know this about Tyler, but Tyler’s a like he’s a horrible dancer.I beg to differ on that. You have to ask kids. I’ve been at a few weddings with him and stuff and you know I I try to be in myflow just like let but when he gets on that dance floor it’s like man party killer.Um, but I the reason I bring it up is like I love I I love to dance and I and I’mhorrible at it myself. Um, I learned my moves from you. Yeah. But but but dancing is an examplelike you know I if if I suck at dancing but I’m on that dance floor just having agood time and letting it go, people are going to have a good time with me. Like they’re just going to enjoy like my my awkward horrible. If I’m on that dancefloor worrying about what people are thinking about me and trying to dance good enough so that people think thatI’m a good dance, I mean, what’s that gonna be like? It’s going to be horrible, right? Yep. And and I that’s how life is, too. It’slike when you talk about flow, Bevon, with coaching and things like that, it’s getting to that place where fear, I seeyou. I know you. Pain, I understand you’re there. I’m gonna look you in the eye. And you know what? I’m gonna go dance anyways. like I’m I’m I knowyou’re there. I think everybody who starts dancing a little bit has that fear and they have to just push intothat and step through it and then just let themselves go. Right. So, we got todance more. That’s right, Brandon. And I I want to I want to bring this back to both you andBevon then for a second and ask this question because I think we’ve all established right now that okay, fear isthe enemy here. Fear is going to leave us with a pocket of resistance and there is actually some risk if we step intoit. You know, if you go to the dance and there are going to be people who won’t want to be your friend after they see you dance, Brandon. Like,oh, absolutely not. Like, that’s the truth. The truth is isthat we’re go we’re going, guys. The three of us, we’re hitting a dance club one night with our wives. We’ll make it so awkwardfor them. Yeah. And they’ll they’ll they’ll never My wife will never not even laughing. Yeah, I know. He’s like, “No way.There’s no way I’m doing that.” But so, here’s here’s what I’m getting at, though, is that there is a real risk. We we it we’ve acknowledged that it’spossible that our choices by being in the arena of life could hurt ourselves and other people and yet we’veestablished that it’s still necessary to do it. So the question is what what howdo you get yourself to step through that step kind of step over that precipice of fear? How do you get yourself toactually take those actions? there some things that we can do or put in place that can help to push that discomfortso that so that it actually happens instead of just talking about it. Yeah,I think um are you asking me to answer the question in my I’m asking either one of you guys. Okay. What comes to my mind is is to toovercome that is you got to be in my mind you got to be laser focused and move with intentionality and be veryvery very intentional in the steps in which you take and almost have blinders on and to help quiet the noise in yourhead these stories that we make up and you just got to be laser focused in my opinion. Well, one thing I I agree withyou, Bevon, but I but I I want to caution you a little bit in that and it comes back to that thing where it’slike, okay, I got to have it all set in place, like laser focus before I do. Andand sometimes I think um like I think it’s more important tolet it let it rip and go and just kind of do than it is to have it laserfocused. I got you. Do you see what I’m saying? I do. Uh but but I love what you said that that word intentionality. Umto to understand what your intentions are. Why are you doing what you’re doing? And and so to be laser focused in thatintention. And I think that’s what you’re saying. Yeah. Um here here’s a couple other things, Tyler.Um who you surround yourself with. Uh you know, you’re going to resonate withwith men um with people. Um if they’re putting themselves out there, they’retaking risks, they’re living life, heck yeah. like you’re going to you’re going to start doing that yourself. Uh they’regoing to start holding you accountable to do it. Um they’re going to start start sending you the energy that hey, Idon’t believe the the BS that that you’re you know you’re going to fail and and you’re not good enough and all that.I believe that you’re going to kill it. And and so when you surround yourself with those type of people, you’re morelikely to put yourself in the game. Um right. Another thing isjust consistency and practice. So, I guarantee the first time you dosomething, Bevon, that and and and you know, we we talked about this some, but the first time you do something, it’sgoing to be like that sucked. Like the first time you step on that dance floor, it’s going to be like, man, that was awkward. I had that awkward energy. Andso, what what you need to do is to actually hop on that dance floor again pretty quickly,right? Yeah. um until you do it again and again. It’s like, wow, this doesn’t kill me when people think that I suck atdancing. Um like I’m I’m I’m okay. What do you know? And then it starts to kill that fear somuch. It’s like it’s like what we were talking about with our buddy. Um he’s pra heactually practices public speaking now. So he had this horrible experience with TEDtalking. He’s getting himself in thegame over and over again and and he’s going to get so comfortable public speaking because he’s facing that fear,right? Um so it’s consist it it is doing. It’sit’s it’s letting it go and doing, but then it’s doing it again and again andagain. Yeah. Um so Brandon, I think I think some of the things that both Beon and you said um apply here, I’m going tojust point out the principles so our listeners can hear them. Basically, Evan, you said set your focus and thenmove with some intentionality, which means I have to be aware of myself. So, that’s maybe the first principle of whatmy intentions really are. The second things, you know, Brandon, you talked about is surround yourself with goodpeople. And I would add to that accountability. Like when I when I tell somebody, you know, that I’m going to dosomething, I’m much more likely to follow through on it. So, I should be able to speak my vulnerabilities, my fears to those people in my life and notjust surround myself with them, but own those things and then get busy on those. And then the third thing you said isconsistent action over time. Yeah. And uh and I think those are awesome. II wanted to maybe just add one more that came to mind while you guys were talking and and Bevon, if you’re willing, ifyou’d just kind of be a guinea pig with this, I want to do just like a small intervention with you. Is that all right? Absolutely.Okay. Um, this is something that I think Tim Ferrris calls it fear setting, but it’s been called other things as well,but it’s the idea that, um, you’re actually going to walk yourself throughthis, even if you can’t do it physically first. So, um, Bevon, what’s what’s oneof the things you’re most afraid of right now that you’re trying to force yourself to step into?what others think of me. What others think of you. And is there something is there something right nowthat that is on your heart to be doing specifically that you’re withholdingfrom doing because you’re so afraid of what other people think of you. Yeah. Coaching.Not coaching athletes, but just, you know, taking my 26 years of experienceworking with people and working in leadership. But I it’s something I have a passion for and uh I know I have a lotto give there. I’ve I’ve heard it for years years even before I graduated highschool actually. So I know there’s something there but for whatever reason like Brad and I talk about I just keepdipping that toe in the water. Okay. All right. But you said something a little bit that was important. I think it’s theconsistency of it. And I think as you are more consistent then you can go start going out in deeper waters.Yeah. Okay. All right. I want I want to do this exercise with you. Um and it might feel a little bit vulnerable and in factI’m going to be vulnerable here and probably doing it over the airways here but because I don’t know how it’s going to turn out but I’d like for you tobring that up in your mind and that’s going to be the biggest fear. All right. So then I want you to just sit for a minute and take just a coupleof really deep breaths and close your eyes. So Tyler, can I can I interject? Sorry. I’ll try to stay out of this, butI want you, Bevon, I want you to really kind of picture and and and likesomething that’s really scary. So, maybe it’s public speaking. Maybe it’s preaching to some people. Maybe it’s uhit it’s uh you know stepping into a business and you’re gonna you’re gonna like try to help that business go to thenext level and you’re there you’re their consultant, you’re their coach, like something specific like that where it’syou’re being called upon and these fears of failure, fear of what people are thinking about you. So try try to try toget there, right, Tyler? is that specific thing like like the I’m thinking of like the biggest task likeif you were to think man if I’m so scared to go do this specific thing but I know it’s within the realm of what Ihave to do if I’m going to reach my goals. Okay. Yeah. So my next public speaking gig or or approaching someonewho I’m intimidated by and they’re asking me to coach them or whatever something like that. Okay. So I want youto just close your eyes for a minute and take a couple deep breaths. And our listeners can do this for themselves if they want to as well. and see if you canget your breathing all the way down into your belly for just a couple of breaths.Throughout the exercise, I want you to maintain that breath if you can. And I’m going to ask you some questions, and you can just keep your eyes closed, butanswer them out loud when I ask you these questions, just so our listeners can also hear these. Hear how it works.Okay? So now imagine that as you’re breathing, you’re out by yourself in themiddle of the ocean and the waves are just moving up and down with you. And you’re all by yourself in the ocean.And as you’re floating, you can feel the temperature of the water on your skin.You can see the color and the depths of the water. And as you’re floating, you can see thataround you, there’s several fins that start to circle you. And you know thatthese are sharks. And these sharks represent these fearsthat you have, these biggest fears that you have. And notice what it feels like to be out in the ocean with these sharkscircling. And then as you’re breathing,imagine that these sharks now sort of form themselves into a door.This door represents stepping into all of these biggest fears. And imagine kind of swimming over to the door. And as youopen the door, you instantly plunge yourself into your biggest fears.And notice it in great detail. What are you noticing, Bevon? As youstep into this door, what are the biggest fears? What do you see? What What can you seephysically as you step into the door? Um, others laughing.Laughing at me. Good. What else? Uh, questioning my intellect.Questioning your intellect. You’re feeling stupid. Mhm. People are mocking you. Yeah.Mhm. Step into that room for a minute and experience everything you can about the worst possible scenarioand allow yourself just to sit with that for a minute and notice those details.And then you look up across the room. And across the room you can seesitted at a table a future version of yourself.And imagine slowly making your way through that room, noticing those details, feeling that laughter, feelingthat judgment, whatever the worst of it is for you.And eventually arriving at the table and sitting across from your future self.And as you sit down, you look your future self into the eyes and you can see that they have some form of messagefor you or some form of advice for you, some lesson they want you to know,what does your future self want you to know, Bevon? that no matter what decisions I make,people are already going to have those opinions and thoughts of ofwhat I’m doing or I’m not doing, but they already have opinions of me regardless.Okay, good. What does your future self feel towards you?Confident that I have direction.Okay. When you when you get done receiving that message, look your future self directly in the eye.Make a mental note of thanks and gratitude. And then take a few more deep breaths.Couple more deep breaths. And then when you’re ready, go ahead and open your eyes.All right, Bevon. No right or wrong response. What uh what is what was your experience with this today? What did younotice? What judgments did you have? Well, the judgments were are youreferring to what I felt that they thought of me? Is that what you that or or any judgments about the exercise or any insights that kindWell, the exercise was a great exercise. Um because as I was saw myself on the other side of the desk, my future self,I saw a guy with his hands on the table grabbing both ends of the desk looking at me in the faceand telling me to go to get after it. You’re fine. Just go do and let thechips fall where they may and just go for it. Awesome. Can I I I just want to sayum that’s what you’re doing right now today, Bevon. Uh you come in here today,you know, it’s pretty awesome. Here you are saying, “I’m worried what people might think about me.” And then you comeon a podcast where there’s an audience of strangers, you know, and uh and youyou get personal and you you talk about your shame and your fear. Um this righthere is therapeutic. Um, this right here is more of your future self than it is that little boy inside of yousaying, “Uh-uh, like people are going to judge you.” Right. Right. Did it kill you today, Bevon?No, I’m good. You’re good. Right. Yeah. Things are fine. It might kill him afterwards when herealizes what he just did. The vulnerability hangover. No.And And you you know what? You know what happens when when you come on, you get vulnerable like this? your uh yourpurpose happens. And so the people who have listened are going to benefit fromfrom this and benefit from your courage and um and you’re blessed in the worldand and um they’re going to connect to you and appreciate you far more thanthey’re going to judge you. Now there might be the judgers out there and they might what think what you know what havefun judging Bevon whatever screw you. No but but no I’m just kidding. The realityis who cares, right? Right. Um well, can I add to that a little bit? Let’s umhaving these years, my years of experience working with peoplein the world we live in today. As I work with other people, I see so much talent and so much opportunityand that we squander it as I’m on the outside looking in.But there are times when I’m on the inside looking out and I’m experienced the same thing that I see in others.Mhm. And I think that everyone has a story to tell. And I think that everyone has moretalent than they can possibly imagine. And the ones that are succeeding today aren’t always the smart ones. just theones that are taking action and going for it. Yeah. And uh umso yeah, I just I I know we have a lot to offer as human beings and I know the good Lord above needs leaders to step upand um but I this exercise has been a great experience for me and I’m verythankful for that. Awesome. Yeah. Well, Bevon, thank you. Thank you so much for coming on. you guys umlistening, step into your fears and realize that you’re going to survive and that things are going to be okay even ifit’s the worst case scenario. Bevon, thank you. I wanted to share with kind of to follow up with what you just said,a quote that everybody’s heard a thousand times, but I think it’s spoken a thousand times because it’s true andit matters and I I think it feels appropriate for the situation of having you on today, Bevon. And it says, “It isnot our light, it is our light and not our darkness that most frighten us. Our deepest fear is not that we areinadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that mostfrightens us. We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, and fabulous? Actually, who are you not tobe? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There’snothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won’t feel insecure around you. We were born to makemanifest the glory of God within us. It’s not just in some of us. It’s in everyone. And as we let our light shine,we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, ourpresence automatically liberates others. Gosh, I I’ve heard the first part ofthat many times, but the second part of that was I almost better. Um, so that’s that’s perfectwrap-up, Tyler. Beautiful. Even as he says it, you could feel it. Yeah. Yeah. All right, you guys. Um, thank youfor listening. And, um, thanks again, Bevon, for coming on. And I hope, uh, I hope you guys gopractice some courage, vulnerability, go dance a little bit, and face those fears. We’ll see you guys next week.Do you feel like no matter how much therapy you do, things really aren’tgetting better? that you’d like to accelerate your feelings of peace and empowerment because it’s just nothappening. As a man, do you feel stuck? Do you lack purpose? Do you not knowwhat real masculinity is? Are you unable to create safety and passion andintimacy in your relationships? Are you lacking connection to God? If you’rerelating to any of these things, then you need to come to our Rising Sun conference. Tyler and I have developed aprocess and an experience for men to shift into their power, to know who theytruly are, to experience their purpose, and learn how to connect to God. So goto rising sunconference.com. Now that’s rising sun as insconference.com and sign up there as soon as you can because space is limited. We’ll see youthere. Heat.Heat. [Music]