5 Things To Know About Your Therapist And How It Can Help You.

Late start, winter storm story & setting up the episode

Five things to know about your therapist and how it can help you. Brandon, what's going on? Uh,not much. A little bit of a late start today. Yeah, a little late start, but we'rewe're getting going. We're move we're moving today finally. It just means it's going to be a reallygood episode. That's what this means. Yeah, it does. So, buckle up everybody here. It's goingto be good. So, dude, you you drove through a winter storm, man.Yeah, you went to Denver. Did you hit any ice or snow or anything? Yeah, there's a couple there's a couple uh pretty You know, anyone who hasn'tdriven through Wyoming in a snowstorm has has not really fully lived.No. No. Anyone who hasn't has lived. They actually survive.Yeah. Did I ever tell you the time I did a full 360 on on that road on thefreeway on I80 up in Wyoming on I80? We It was just like wind like and there was like semis like turningover and ice and we like tapped the brakes. I was in the I was in the back.We tapped the brakes. Next thing you know, we did a full 360 in the middle of the freeway and and stopped just facingstraight. You got lucky. You got lucky. Barely didn't hit anyone. Yeah, it was crazy.So, yeah, if if you haven't driven through Wyoming in a winter storm,don't.Yeah, that's my advice. So, it that day um when we did it in thewinter storm, it was supposed to be like a I don't know six hour drive and it ended up being like 14.Oh, yeah. because everything just like total comes to a crawl. Especially when you got all those extra that's a like ahighway thoroughfare for all of just kind of the freight trucks and things. So, and the winds the winds add to theweather. So, it's like a it's definitely a gauntlet. You may consider I70.Sometimes a lot better than I 80. Yeah.Um, well, Tyler, should we uh should we get into the inner workings of oftherapy and being a therapist? And yeah, let's uh let's talk a little bit about we titled this uh the episodebasically. Sometimes people ask us about being a therapist. They also ask us how to choose a good therapist. And so,we're kind of merging both of those things together. Today, uh, we're going to talk a little bit about yourtherapist and some things that you probably don't think about or that you don't know about your therapist that if you do know these things, you might find

The inner workings of therapy & why the relationship is the #1 success factor

more success in your therapy process. Yeah, I think I think it's important.You think about things like a doctor or people that help us helpingprofessionals even like you go into your mechanic like you just don't know all ofwhat's going on with them and their job is to fix your car. there's an objective. Their job is to like help youwith your medical issue or whatever. Um, I would I would say that that yes,mechanics and doctors are humans and absolutely it's important to to uh knowthat they they have pain and they have they they feel right. Yeah.Um, but with your therapist especially, this is something I think is important to understand. Um the the most importanttool that your therapist has when they work with you is themis their humanity. And so their humanity is bring beingbrought to the table as they do work with you. Their empathy, theirconnection, um their ability to to feel with you. And so I think it's it's it'shelpful to understand that yes, you're there to meet an objective to heal, butyour relationship with your therapist is actually important as a human human to human relationship.Yeah. There's a there's a book that was written that did like a full study on umlike what makes therapy most effective and they looked at all sorts of different factors and then they boiledit all down and they came down to one factor that will dictate more than any other factor whether or not your therapywill be successful and the factor was your relationshipwith your therapist. Yeah. So, um, it didn't really matterwhat modalities. It didn't really matter as much aswhat's the what's the nature of your relationship with your therapist. Yeah. And we're talking about a healthyappropriate or good relationship. Yeah. Well boundary or well boundaried like like your therapist relationshipthat they have with you is is a therapist client relationship. That's it's that type of a relationship.However, in that type of relationship, and I think Tyler, all therapists, maybe we're getting to one right here, alltherapists kind of they have to be aware of that line, but also give enough loveand connection from themsel in order to build rapport and to have thatrelationship and then keep that line. So, there's always that balance of client, therapist, boundary torelationship. But I've I've worked with therapists that are are very uh like they're waytoo into I'm important. I'm the professional and I'm here to haveboundaries with you and get to your objective. And they don't give any of themsel to that relationship.um they're just objective, rational, logical, and that they they don'tconnect to their clients and and so then they don't have that relationship that actually helps the client move forward.Right. So, but that's the balance there, right, Brand? And I was talking my wife is a therapist, too, and she was talkingto me over the weekend while we were driving in this snowstorm about a situation where she had a client recently who overdosedand passed away. And um so she had to go to the funeral and of course it was justdevastating. And she was kind of like bemoning to me this weird situation thatyou find yourself in as a therapist sometimes in a moment like that where she goes to this funeral and she knowsdetails about this person's life that nobody at the funeral knew. Like and atthe same time she couldn't tell you how many kids he had. She couldn't tell you like, you know, some of the other thingsthat would be more of like what a best friend might know because of the nature of the relationship of being thetherapist working on certain targets and not knowing the actual full relationship, right? It's a it's a weirdplace to be in where you're coming in and there needs to be some level of right boundaries with the right direction in terms of what you want towork on while there is still the human element of having a relationship and a process in therapy. what they call itwith the the with the therapist is good therapists have a good process for what they call joining in rel in uh in thetherapy process that doesn't mean skewing boundaries too much but it does mean hey we are joined like we you cantrust me and you kind of know a little bit who of who I am and what I'm about and therefore I can give some of myselfto this process a little bit differently. Yep. Ju, it's interesting as you talk about that, Tyler. I just think of allthe times I've been in the grocery store and seen somebody down an aisle and just thought, "Yeah, I know everything aboutthat person." And and and I I can't even go up and say hi. Like, I'm not supposedto because I'm not supposed to acknowledge that I know them. If if they can come up and say hi to me, that'sokay. Um, so it's this it's this tricky thing. I was just at a dance concert last Friday and say that happened, youknow, and it's just like it's an interesting thing because I don't want to be cold, but I also need to maintainconfidentiality and boundaries and umand just like you're talking about with your wife, like that that those feelingsof I I know them on a level that a lot of people don't know themand yet I I can't really talk about that. Um, you know, right? It's tricky.Yeah. Um, so, so I got some other things. Tyler, do you have some?Yeah, let's let's go through just a few things of, you know, what it's uh what you what what you could know about yourtherapist that could also help you if you know these things in terms of the way you look at it. Yeah,we can go back and forth for a minute if you want. Brandon, you want to start? Uh, yeah. Uh, one thing to consider,and this is, let's say you're you're bumping into your therapist's office about 2:00in the afternoon. Um, you got all these problems, all this stuff that you want to get off your chest and and you'reglad you have this hour of therapy to get it off your chest. That's good. That's awesome. Good for you.That's what you're That's what you're coming for. Good for you for going to therapy. Um,the therapist we usually a therapy session is about how

What your therapist’s day really looks like (back-to-back sessions & emotional load)

long, Tyler? How long is it supposed to be? 50 minutes. And how long is it? Um, it depends on your boundaries, butfor me, usually more than 50 minutes. Let's say it's 55, right?But usually it's like button up against that hour and between one client walksout the door and you literally have a space of f between five and zerominutes. Um and and what is that time like Tyler that that between thoseclients? You mean as a therapist? What does that mean to you? That's likethat's time to for me for me personally it's time to kind of work ontransitioning to to be able to try to be fully present for the next person. So that sometimesincludes a few deep breaths that sometimes includes even some physiological kind of like sematic stuffto like release my own energy sometimes. Um, and it also includes a lot of workwith like I know that this is an unhealthy word in the recovery world sometimes, but it's helpful in in at inthe workplace is uh compartmentalizing being able to take what I justexperienced and be able to set that aside and move into the next thing and say I'm I'm here now with whatever elseis coming through again. So, you just let's say you just had an intense couplesession like it was just let's say it was a disclosure intense couple sessionjust heavy and it pushes up against the time you got 3 minutes like and in inwalks this person at 2 in the afternoon like sits on your couch. Um, I thinkit's important to understand from the client's perspective that it is your therapist's job to be present for you.Yes. Like, absolutely. And it's their job to have those boundaries and figure out what to do with that little amount oftime that they have between the last session and you. Um, that's it's important to understandthat. Um, but it's also important to understand that a therapist is a humanthat can't do that perfectly. If it was highly emotional um in the hour beforeit took a lot of energy um then it's it's it's almost impossibleto take three minutes and clear all clear it all out and quickly compartmentalize. And I think I thinkwe've gotten really good at that, Tyler. I think you're good at it. I think I'm good at it. It's a skill that you needto learn as a therapist and it can be hard sometimes.Yeah. Well, and I think that that's just it is that's why that's why a therapist, I think, should be following through onwhat they preach to their clients because if I'm also then not going home from work at the end of the day anddoing what I need to to take care of myself emotionally, practice good emotional hygiene, do my daily charge,make sure I'm talking through things with people, then that's going to stack on top of itself more and more and more throughout the the days, weeks, months,and eventually I'm going to be a shell of the therapist I want to be, and I'm not going to be able to be helpful to my

Burnout, self-care, and how good therapists protect their capacity

clients. So, so you kind of want to be looking for a therapist who also practices the kinds of things that they preach a little bit. Um,Tyl Tyler, when you were in your height of workahololism, what was your record in terms of uhappointments in a row? Oh, dude. Like, it wasum and I thought I was saving I thought I was saving the world. Oh, you thought you were doing the rights thing, right? I thought I wassaving the world and I was doing like 12-hour days of straight back to back to back to backtoback therapy.I don't know if if people fully understand what that means, what Tyler just said, but like the the a humanisn't designed to sit and listen for 12 hours straight. and um your just yourbrain, but let alone your spirit and your energy and ju at about for me andand I know you're a lot tougher than me, Tyler. Um but I at about the sixthsession, I would get a lot of tension in my eyes. Um and I would get a headacheand I would just I I would just feel this fatigue that I can't even describe.It's an emotional, spiritual, um, even physical fatigue that I couldget in that place of fatigue and I could grind for the rest of the day. I couldautopilot. Yeah, autopilot. I could do it for the rest of the day. Um, and this isn'thealthy, you guys. Like what we're talking about, Tyler and I have learned, we've changed. I I really have made a lot of adjustments, but I you get inthat fatigue for the rest of the day. And I think my record was like 11 in a row. And then I did a group right afterit. So it was like 12 and a half hours straight of talking and listening.When you get home at night, Tyler, and you've had a day like that, like howmuch do you have to give? Yeah. Usually the tank's pretty empty. You think?Yeah. Yeah. You know, duh.But that's on and that's on your therapist to make sure that they're doing whatever they need to for their own emotional health. Yeah. This is the unhealth that you weretalking about. A therapist should practice what they preach. And and I'll tell you, Tyler, I don't do more thanfour sessions in a row. Like I I need a full hour off after four sessions. Like I don't I don't do morethan six sessions in a day anymore. Like I I just don't like Yeah. You kind of found that spot foryourself. If I hit that four and I have an hour, I can do two more and I can be really present.Um Right. And and for me, for me it's like it's more about the if I frontload if Ifrontload with dailies, like this is something that's shifted over my own career in my own life, but I have almosttwo hours every morning where it's it's daily charge stuff. Yeah. And if I if I'm doing my daily charge ona regular basis, then I can come in and it means I start my day a little bit later than I need. He's talking about self-care.Yeah. Um um uh but but if I fill the tank up on a regular basis everymorning, then I have more to give. And so there are a couple days a week where I work long days. I still probably don'tdo more than five or six one-on- ones because I found that for me my my groupwork is like it doesn't drain the tank. It actually fills the tank. and and theone-on ones and the and the coup's work sometimes, at least with my personality and my style, is the part where I pourdifferent parts of myself into it. And that's the part that needs to be rebuilt every day. Yeah.Um so, so I have a couple days a week where I do long days, but I feel like I still have like good most days I stillhave good pen, energy, and passion because the that two hours in the morning, which used to get filled in byclients. Yeah. I felt so bad when I started changing my when I started changing myroutine to cut out I cut out two clients per day. So that's 10 clients a week todo self-care. And it felt like I was abandoning people. It felt like I waslike not doing as much good in the world. It felt like I was being selfishuntil I started to get this kind of conviction of, holy cow, I'm I'm way better for my clients now than I used tobe. Yeah. Yep. I love that story. Um, okay.Do you have another one, Tyler? Um, yeah. I would say just before we move on from that one, I'll just saysomething that um, and the reason I'm sharing this is for people who are listening to be kind of considering thisfor themselves and how it'll actually help you. But there have been times when like maybe I've come out of a sessionwith a couple and you can almost feel the energy as they leave the office. It's like you can kind of feel that likeheaviness and the next client's waiting in the chair there and they kind of look at me and go like, "Uh, do you want totake a minute or two before we meet?" Yeah. Like just just even that likethoughtfulness for just a second actually like for me is almost like helps me hit the reset button faster andbe like, "Oh, okay." Like um I' I've rarely had to say, "Oh yeah, give me acouple minutes." There have been a couple times where I've had to say, "Hey, g give me three to five minutes right now." And then I'll go into myoffice and I'll do some breathing or I'll make a phone call or I'll flush something through, but most of the timejust that acknowledgement of, "Hey, I felt whatever was going on there for just a split second and if you need achance to transition, go ahead and transition. I'd rather have all of you than just like come straight in and getstarted." Yeah. Yeah. Right. And that's that's been really helpful. And and and what it does is it helps me to transition faster, but thenit also gives that that that feeling of like the human element coming back makesme more desirable to want to like fully engage back in with my client. Yep. Another another thought of advicethat I thought of as you're talking, Tyler, is um to like be cognizant oftime yourself as the client. It's it's the therapist's job ultimately to manage that and to have those boundaries, but

How to be a thoughtful client (timing, “dropping bombs,” and boundaries)

it's your it can be your job too that we put multiple clocks in a therapy office.I see one behind Tyler right there. Um there's a reason why we can My wife made me put it right there cuzthat's the way I face. She's like, "Tyler, you're terrible with any of your sessions on time. Like, make sure you watch that clock."Yeah. Yeah. There's a reason why we see clocks both directions. And if don'tdrop a bomb with 3 minutes left. If you're going to drop the bomb, come in and drop the bomb, but don't hold it tothe very end and then be like, "But now I really need to talk about this." Boom.And it puts a therapist in a tough position um where they want to like listen, theywant to care, they want to help you with that thing, but they also got to say, "Hey, I got someone waiting in mylobby." Like weird. You got to go. Yeah. Um so you can be cognizant of that andand help your therapist um with that as well. Okay. Umshould we move on, Tyler? Yeah, let's do let's do another one. I'll I'll throw one out there. Umthis one is um understandingif you're going to a therapist and it feels like you're trying out to be one of their clients, that's not necessarilya bad thing. Right? Like it's it's a weird it's kind of a weird d it's a weird dance becauseultimately you're hiring a therapist and they work for you and most people can come in and and the

Trying out for your therapist? Finding the right fit & when they say “I’m not for you”

way that business is normally done is is that I hired you so I get everything I want from you and I'm entitled to X Yand Z. But the best therapists are boundaried enough and they know whothey are and what their lane is and what they specialize in and what their ideal clients are with with who they can mosthelp that sometimes they'll actually be the ones to say I don't think we're theright fit. Um I think you could do better with this person or that person or this person.And um and if they're really really busy and they happen to come across that way,it's not because they're arrogant potentially. It's because they know what they're really good at and they're going to behelpful in actually getting you the right kind of help. Yeah. I remember this happening a couple ofyears ago. I had somebody they just they called me up. I want to be on your case load. I want to be on your case load. I want to be I met with them once and Iwas like, hey, I'm not quite the right fit for you. And they're like, no, I need to be here. I need to be here. I kind of met with them a few more timesand finally I was like, "Hey, I don't think I am the right fit for you and um I think ex this person and this personand this person gave three or four referrals and they left my office really mad like almost feeling like rejected."Yep. And um and I was like, "Okay, well that's one person, you know, I feel bad, whatever." I didn't really hear fromthem again. And then like 3 years later, I had a new person call me and say,"Hey, so and so said you're the perfect person for for me." And I'm like, "Who?"And they say the name, and I'm like, "That person was furious at me because I wasn't the one to work with them."Yeah. And uh and I thought, "Oh, see." But they they finally caught on to this idea of finding the right fit for atherapist. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It's it's hard, Tyler, as you talkabout this, and something I want to acknowledge is there is not enough goodtherapy out there. And I I hate to say this, but the really good therapists umare are um they they can charge a lot of money andthey can pick and choose the clients they want to work with um becausethere's just such high demand for really good therapy. Um, you know what happens too? It's kind ofa weird thing. It's a weird dance that happens, but when a therapist knows what they're really good at and then theypick and choose the clients that they know they can actually help, they find a lot of success. They stay more passionate. They're less burned outand they get more referrals and then they get and then they get more referrals and uh it's this weird thingthat kind of spirals itself that direction. So, they're actually higher in demand by just knowing what they'rereally, really good at and being selective. And um Tyler, you know what's crazy is when I raised my prices, I gotbusier. Yep. Like if you think about that, it's like and I think what it it it it shows itshows people like go like think about what's on the line with therapy.You want to go to the best. Yeah. Right. And so I I don't know what we're saying to like the audience or theclients here other than um be pers be persistent and be be ready and willingto do your work. I'll take clients who are who are like let's do this if I feel like I can really help them move forwardno matter how bad or horrible their situation is. But if they're humble andready to go, I'm much more likely to say, "Okay, like schedule another session."Yeah. And and maybe what I would say to Brandon to what we're trying to say here is what is you for sure want to find agood fit. We've talked about that in the past on other episodes, but but the best the best therapy seems to be when thereis an understanding of a collaboration that even though you're necessarily hiring me for my services and I'm goingto treat it that way and I'm going to give you the very best value that I can give you, this is a collaborationbetween two people and we want to make sure that it's the right collaboration where you end up winning.Can I want to speak to that Tyler? That's that's a really good point and I think this is important for people tounderstand. I I hear things like this a lot. I got to the point with a therapist where I I'd go in every week and I'd sitdown and we'd just like chat about the week and that was it. Like it just be like we wouldn't really do anything butI'd just like talk to them. So that that's something that I hear a lot. or II was meeting with the therapist and it just felt like they wanted to be myfriend and I felt like I needed to perform for them kind of um again notnot this is we're not looking for that that I think that the sweet spot is what you just said um when a client comes inthis is a collaboration we're going to work together the therapist is the guide um but thetherapist doesn't do the work for you um they're boundaried in in the way that they are not overinvested in yoursuccess. Um they are boundaried in a way where they um don't take personal umwhether you like them or not, whether you're going to be successful or not. Um so then they can shoot straight withyou. They can be really honest. They can be direct. They can give a ton of empathy. And you're so you're going tofeel from them this strength in the collaborative process and this guidancefrom them and they're going to hand it back to you to say go go do your work.This is yours. I'm not taking it on myself and but but I got some direction.I we have some ideas. We can reflect back and help you get conscious of things that you're not conscious of andaware of so that you can go out and try something new. Um, that is what you'relooking for. And when the when the attachment gets gets weirdand you're you're sensing that the attachment is weird in your therapy sessions,um, listen to that as the client. It's like, huh, like, uh, maybe the therapist is extracting something here from thesesessions that that isn't good. Um, anddoes that make sense, Tyler? What I'm saying? Yeah, makes a ton of sense. Yeah, let's there's a couple others weprobably want to get to. Brandon, why don't you jump into the next one? Okay. Um,I got a bunch here. So,here's one. Um, letters behind their name does notautomatically mean that you should trust them. Um, I have seen therapists with a ton ofletters behind their name that are not good therapists. Um, trust is uh something that is built

Degrees vs the “it factor,” therapists are human, and values alignment

and something that is earned. And um, I think a lot of times people justwant answers. I was talking to someone last week and there they were a betrayed client. D-Day had just happened and theywent into a therapy office just like desperate for somebody to say, "I know what to do." And in that vulnerablestate, I think of, you know, we've talked about Jod in the past. This is a good example of it. In that vulnerablestate, a therapist can come in and say, "Okay, like you are so vulnerable. I cantell you exactly what to do, but if you get those icky feelings of like this, mymy gut, my my intuition, my discernment still doesn't feel right. I'm not goingto There's a difference, Tyler, between I don't like what that therapist is saying and so now I'm going to likefight against it and my gut tells me this is off.Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah. Because a therapist's job is to push you, is to you're going to beuncomfortable, it's it's difficult, that's all good, but when there's a little bit of like ghlike something's off here. Just because they have a bunch of letters behind their name doesn't mean you just say,"Oh, okay. I'll do whatever you say." Right. Yep. Yeah. Brandon, I you and I bothkind of look at it a little differently than maybe most do in terms of how you hire. Um,we don't look at letters behind names at all. No, we look at what we call kind of the itfactor. And the it factor is the heart and soulof being a healer, you know. Um, the the passion for it, the willingness tolearn, to gain the skills, to gain the knowledge, to gain like the techniques and tools and information. Yes. Um, butyou know, we had we had someone come through just about five years ago really wanting to work with us, had tons ofcredentials behind their name, but in an interview, it just it just was not the right fit.And we ended up taking someone who was fresh out of grad school, but just hadthe IT factor and was willing to go and get certified in EMDR, art, the stuff we like to do. Um, but we wouldn't hirethem because they're certified in that. We hire them because of their abilities to be a healer and thenthey go and get the certifications that allow them to do whatever it is they want to do. Yeah. Yeah. Right.Um, just to add on to what you just said,every therapist is a human and every human is unique and that means thatyou're not a good fit with everybody. Um, and just because they have letters behind their name doesn't mean thatthey're the right therapist for you. Um, the right therapist for you might be different than the right therapist forme because they're they're different. That's right. That's right. And um andthat kind of leads into this other one that I wanted to talk about that goes along with actually two of them that kind of merged with what you just said,Brandon, is remember when you're working with a therapist, even though they're coming with and you're coming to themfor a specific set of knowledge and skill set, um you're also dealing withanother human being who also has human problems. Yeah. You know, we're really good, Brandon.Therapists aren't perfect. We're really good at projecting that we are. Yeah. like we like we like to be able tobe the ones to solve everybody else's problems to avoid our own. Um but but every therapist is also a human beingwho is working through human problems. And um and so just understanding thatcan allow you to connect on a human level a little bit with the person that you're working with as well. And thatleads to the other part that you were saying, Brandon, that I wanted to bring up and make sure we had it in here today in our in this episode isthat, you know, I live in a little small, I wouldn't call it small, but like Cash Valley, Utah, you know, andthere's hundreds of therapists just in Cash Valley, Utah, and for the howeverseveral hundred of therapists there are here, there's that many different value systems.Yeah. you know, and uh you know, there's probably a lot of value systems that overlap, but it's extremely importantwhen you're vetting out a therapist to understand that there should at least be able to on your first appointment orphone call or whatever, there should be a sense that you start to get as to whether or not the value system alignsenough with your value system to make the therapy process work. Yeah.Um because because otherwise you'll run into a ton of friction. Not the kind of friction that's good like curious likeoh I need to rethink that or I need to but but more just like flatout difference in values and then thatfriction will end up making you feel bogged down and stuck in the relationship if it's if it's too starkand too different. Yep. Yep. Um that's true and and andthat goes right along with what I was saying, right? Not everybody's a fit for you. And Tyler and I are brothers and wehave a lot of the same values and yet we're different. And it's interesting, Ty, we have people come through whoreally align with you and some that really align with me. And that's good. That's fine. That's normal.Yeah. Um, so one thing to consider, Tyler, I Iwant you to think about this. You remember when we used to mow lawns?Of course I do. And like we got pretty good at it. Like we could give a good service, right?Like Yeah. We got good and proficient at it. Like we got we could do it quick and andquality good job. Yeah. Right. And after we'd like do a lawn and

Therapy is messy: long-term change, healthy collaboration, and not needing your praise

we did, you know, did a nice job and you turn around, you look back like how did that feel? What did you see?It always felt so good. Like a full accomplishment, you know, like nice lines in that.You jump in the van and turn the music back on and grab that big like 64 ounce Dr.And look at that grass that we just mowed. And it's just like the the clean lines, you know, no no grass on thesidewalk like and therapy. If you could get one of those like elderly ladies that nitpicked everythingto just like smile at you when you drove away, you know, man,therapy does not work that way. Doesn't work that way. And it's,you know, sometimes a therapist can be have play a criticalrole in a really important moment. Like, let's say someone comes in, like anadolescent comes in, they need to have a a real hard boundary with their parent. A therapist can help them hold a lineand do a really hard thing. Um, but in the end, you don't have that feel-goodfeeling of the clean lines of the grass. it usually leads to more chaos in thatperson's life that they then need to work through. And I got a text last weekum from a client. It mentioned you too, someone who's been to our retreats and things who basically said, "I can'tbelieve how far I've come. I'm seeing the positive outcomes in my life. Um thank without you and Tyler, I neverwould have gotten there. I should have shared this with you." Um, we those moments happen, but I've known that guyfor years, years, and it's little incrementalshifts and steps that that take place over time that you start to seeprogress. And I guess I'm saying this because the expectation of I'm going to go totherapy and get fixed should shift to I'm going to go to therapy and start to get to work.Yeah. I'm going to continue journey. I'm going to engage in a process. And a good therapist knows that as you go upand and progress, you're going to fall back and go up and fall back. And it's going to be like that. And they're therefor the journey and they understand it and they've seen it before. Um, but it'sit's usually messy. Yeah. So, it is messy and and it's hard. Andthat's what that's what makes therapies, I think, frustrating for the client too, Brandon, is is that sometimes that messiness,it's like how do you discern the messiness that's wrong versus the messiness that's right.That might be a whole different topic for a different podcast sometime. Um, but but yeah, you're right. And and it'shard because you know this this comes into it too like you'll and this may bewhat you're talking about a little bit if your therapist is trying to extract from you. One of the things that theyoften try to extract if they're not very confident in who they are is you tellingthem how amazing they are. Yeah. Um it's great. Like by all means begrateful. Show gratitude like to people. It's going to make your life better including your therapist, whatever. Butif your therapist needs you to tell you those things, they're not quite seasoned enough yet.You know what's crazy, Tyler, is I I was that guy. I was I I I couldn't wait foreveryone to tell me I was awesome. And as I was that guy, guess what happened to my case load?Yeah. It goes down. I couldn't fill it up because you're focusing on the wrong inputs,right? And when when I when I realized like look, I'm not here to consume and extract from my clients and and it andit's interesting because now when I get the the like praise, it feels good and Iappreciate people being grateful. Yeah. Um but it it doesn't fill my cup for myself-worth. That's the key. It's the selfworth part of it. And there's another side to that, which is when when people are frustratedor have a hard time with what I have to say, but it was honest and real, I can deliver that still because I don't needthem to like me. So, yeah, it'sthat's important. So, so yeah, we we're not here as therapists to get our value and our worth from you. That's what agood therapist does. So, yeah. Um, Tyler, you're an awesome therapist, man. Keep up the work good work. Oh,dude. Thanks so much. You just made my day. You're a great example. You're the best ever. You're the best ever.You, too, Brandon. Likewise. Yeah. And if you want therapy from Tyler, you can go to him and he'll turnyou down because he's such a good therapist.No, that's that's not what I was saying. I know. I know. I'm just But yeah, um hopefully this is helpful.Well, hopefully it gives you a little bit of an insight and and a perspective into kind of maybe what's going on on the other side of things sometimes thatmaybe you don't consider. And uh thank you for being with us. If you have other questions or other insights, we'd loveto hear from you. We'd love to have you rate, review, come subscribe to us on YouTube, um whatever. We just love beinga part of your lives the way that you let us be. And until next time, keep on keeping on.