Everything My Partner Does BOTHERS Me. How Do We Get Unstuck?

https://youtube.com/live/PjyQu0J2Ccw

In this episode, Tyler and Brannon talks about the difference between showing up in recovery out of fear versus from a place of grounded values. They explore how fear-based decisions can damage connection, and what it looks like to build a deeper, more authentic foundation—one rooted in self-trust, love, and personal conviction.

Transcript (Tap to Toggle)
Intro
Everything my partner does bothers me. How do we get unstuck?
Brandon, how's it going, man? It's going. It's, you know, bumping along.
It's funny the topic today. I I've wondered that question on the other side of it. Everything I do bothers my
partner. How do I stop? Like, yeah, we should have your wife on ask this
question. should have Rianna come on and actually like speak to this question. I
don't know if she'd have any good advice or not cuz maybe I still bother her with everything I do. I don't know. So, which I don't understand. I mean, you don't do
anything annoying like ever. That's true though. Like you like you're just, you know, you just like lay around, you
know, watch UFC just like you help around the house.
You're like you are like a perfect husband. It's a It's a pure miracle. We we're we're hitting 25 years this year
and with what I put her through, it is an actual miracle that we're going to hit our 25th year this year and still
like each other cuz I think she likes me again now. It took a while. It's cuz you're a good dude and you got a great
you got a great smile. Thanks, man. So, she'll hang on just for your smile. So, it's Yeah, my smile is
great for Zoom meetings because it's like bing. It's like glow-in-the-dark. So, no. Oh, no. She's a lucky woman and
and uh you're a lucky man. So, I am a lucky man. Yeah. Um well, we are we are
blessed today because we have a couple here with us and we've wanted couples to come on, couples who are stuck, couples
who just kind of struggling. We want to help couples to just get unstuck. And um
so Jeff and Lexis answered the call. They're here with us today. Um welcome to the show, guys. Thanks for having us.
Joy in Pain
Um, if you could give us a little bit of what's going on, a little bit of background. Um, I we don't care if it's
Jeff or Lexus, either one of you. Um, but just fill us in. Tell us where you're at and what's going on. Well, I
I'll start. Um, obviously, so I got to just, um, quickly own the fact that like
I was on I was on the show about a year ago. Um, we were getting ready to we were kind of preparing for a vacation
out to Utah. We're living in Georgia right now and uh we're having some fights over like how much time will we
spend with each uh family and stuff like that. Um, it's now been a year. Lex is actually out in Utah right now. I'm
about to fly out there uh on Wednesday and um yeah, I just kind of I I started
listening to your podcast again. I kind of took a little break and I heard the call and so I just signed up and then I told Lex I'm like, "Hey, I signed this
up for this." So, she might be a little bit uh blindsided by it. She probably uh I probably annoyed her uh yet again, but
uh I'll let her decide on that one. Yeah. No. Uh yeah, we live in Atlanta,
Georgia, and uh been married for 10 years. Um Jeff's been working through
recovery for I don't know how long has it been, Jeff? Two years. uh two two
years. Um I mean we had had uh you'd found out about it beforehand and we'd
actually gone and met in uh I believe Tyler's uh practice there. I was I'm
looking at his little office right now and it's like kind of familiar when we were meeting there. Um and so but yeah
actually act like working recovery for myself from my own like inside. It's
been about two years now. Two and a half years. Yeah. So, he's been working that. And I
mean, as with all of that recovery and addiction and everything comes a lot of pain, a lot of anger, um, a lot of
sadness, um, just like all the emotions, I'm sure, as a lot of people, a lot of women feel. And I don't know, I think
we're at a point where we have two young girls. Um, and so we're in a hard stage as far as like parenting goes and um,
Real Sobriety
trying to figure out like how to manage their emotions and then we're also
trying to manage our marriage and our emotions. Um, and just feeling really stuck and feeling like I mean I'm
feeling a lot of resentment and annoyance and um, anger and things like
that towards Jeff. And I don't even know where it's really coming from, but just um I don't know if it's just like, oh,
this is part of like the recovery process, like here's a stage where like, you know, we're like stepping through the stage. Hopefully, there's a light at
the end of the tunnel. But um yeah, I think we're we're just in a place where
I feel stuck and like, you know, we're we're we're coming up on 10 years of marriage and it's like things are just
looking different than maybe I thought they were. and um you know like I didn't know this is we were going to have to be
dealing with like such a hard like recovery process and like all the pain that comes with addiction and things
like that at this point. So yeah, that's a little bit about like where we're at and um like where we just want somewhere
to go. I think we're just feeling a little bit hopeless. And uh just to give a little more context as well, like I've
been working this recovery for like last two and a half years. And part of that
was I got my sponsor in my 12step program about
oh it was February of last year, so a year and a half ago. And he's he is he's
intense. Um, and so it's required me to like he he wants me to go to four
in-person meetings a week um for my particular one which I do um I actually
just picked up a a sponsy so um that's adding more time. So it's been it's been
intensive. I've also been working with um a therapist from uh I think Tyler's
uh group. Um, so all in all, like I think you guys were talking about the levels of program or whatever, like I I
guess this would be almost a 2.1 or whatever. Like, um, like between all the
stuff that I'm doing, it's a lot. And so that Lex has to pick up the bill a lot of times like time wise like with the
Flaws Show Up
girls and bedtimes and things that like I I can't do because I'm I'm working
this program. Um, so yeah, just intensely and and that's been going on
for, you know, the last year and a half. And so I think she's had to pick up a lot. And then I think she just recently
started working a 12step program as well as far as February. Yeah. And anon or
whatever. Uh, yeah. Yep. So yeah, as of February. So,
I think that also brings up a lot of like oh like I didn't know I was feeling these things or you know and hearing
other people's stories like oh like should I be more mad or I don't know like just you know you're trying to
figure out I'm working through these things now which I haven't been before. So I think
that adds adds to it. It's been so helpful and such a great resource to
have like a group of women who just like really understand what I'm going through. Um just because like I mean I
have friends who I've told and it's like you know they they can be like wow that's really hard but it's like to really be with a group of women who
have done like gone through the exact if not worse like than I have just like
makes all the difference and has been a huge huge blessing. So um yeah but yeah
lot it takes a lot of time. It feels it's like hard. It's like something like selfish like an addiction like takes
away a lot of time and then now to work through the recovery process is now taking so much time away from our family
and so it's just like a hard like balance of like you know I know this is
right but gosh it's hard so yeah is uh I
know this is kind of a st maybe a stupid question but is the programming as you're doing it working?
Yeah. Yeah. So, I'm currently 10 months sober. Um, I think I've made a lot of uh
big Yeah, a lot of a lot of strides. I think it Yeah, it's working. I I will
say I was just actually thinking about that. Um Oh, what was I going to say?
Oh, now now I've forgotten. Um Oh, I was just going to say that like I think you
know being sober uh there's a line from the book where it's like sober's not well. And so certainly that's like true
Is This Enough?
at times where it's like yeah my old coping me mechanisms my way to like numb some of the pains or the things I don't
want to feel like those are gone. So there are times now where like you know
the anger comes out and like rather than just like holding it in where it's like oh I can go numb in a little bit or
whatever it is it's like no I'm just angry and so I' I make more mistakes now for sure or at least I feel all of the
pain of the mistakes that I make. And so, you know, like I hate to admit it, but like I've been I've I don't know
that I was really much of a yeller before, but I I find myself yelling more. Um, which is super painful because
like yeah, like a lot of times it's at my daughters who are like, you know, six
and two and it's just like they really aren't the causes per se. It's just like
I I get to this place of fear and insanity and and then the stuff comes out. And so whereas before, you know, I
could obviously go numb or like just forget it or whatever, like I don't do that now. So I I have to sit in pain a
lot more, which is uncomfortable, but at the same time, like I think it's better
and I think it's going to actually yield growth, whereas before it was just numb and then there'd be no growth. So uh I
certainly think that there's I think the program's working. I just think there's
a lot more pain and there's a lot more awareness of the amount of pain that uh
is there to work through. You're nodding your head, Lexus. Do you agree with that? Do you feel like the
program is working? Yeah, I mean we I mean like my first like discovery date
Fear vs Values
was back in 20 it was like before we had kids, so
2018. Um, and that's when he was saying like, "Oh, we were coming to your office, meeting with somebody there." Um, things
like that. And that was like for I don't know, six, eight months. And I was like, "We did it." Like we're do like we did
that was easy. You know, like we worked through that. Um, and then
um, you know, come to find out five, six years later that, you know, that actually wasn't the case and and he was
still acting out throughout all that time and I didn't know. Um, so like but the person he is after these last two
years of like really intensive like work in the program is he's
completely different and like yeah it it's true. It's hard because he is showing up in a different way where yeah
we're not used to him being like being as emotional I guess. Um, I think it's been
hard for me cuz it's like Yeah, he I think he was numbing it out like a lot of the time before. And so it's it's
just like we're now shifting into this new place of like he doesn't have coping
skills. We need to figure out new ones. I need to figure out, you know, new ones. I think we've kind of probably created some codependency um and things
like that as well. Um, but yeah, I totally think that like essay can work
if you put the time and effort in like he has and even like we meet with a life coach together um every other week and
she's met with Jeff since he chose like two and a half years ago to like really
put in the work to now and she's like like like you should be like look at you Jeff like you should be proud of
yourself like you really like he really has like taken what do they say take take the
bull by the horns you know, like he just really has just like run with it and just like which I'm grateful for because
being an Essinon, I've now heard like that's not always the case. Does Does it bother you too that you see that?
Um, yeah. I mean, it does in some ways. um like
bother me that other people are not like you see him doing this and this
work is now hard and you're seeing more emotion and it's rough. You're grateful for it on one hand. Yeah. But on the
other hand, does it bother you to see him taking the bull by the horns and starting to get better and
um causing the mess that it is? Yeah. I think it's I think that's where some of
the resentment comes from is just like, man, like if you just never had this
addiction, we wouldn't have to be going through this and like you wouldn't be gone all the time. And um like it's un,
you know, it's it's like a ball of yarn. It's like, you know, we're like unraveling this ball of yarn. It's like,
oh, here's another issue. It actually wasn't just the addiction. The addiction was hiding all of these issues that we
What She Needs
haven't dealt with for 25 years. and here they are and like now I now I'm a
part of this, you know, and it's like and I'm doing the same for me. It's like, you know, now I'm here and I'm like, you know, I'm trying to unravel my
ball of yarn as well. And and so I think yeah, it it's a there's a lot of a lot
of pain and it's really difficult. Um I like your analogy with the the ball
of yarn. Um, my I guess my question is,
you know, the the question that you guys have is basically like, how do we get unstuck?
Everything he's doing bothers me. Um, and so then let's put that question up
against, is it working? Um, because what I'm hearing is yes, it's working.
And yet here you guys are in this situation right now today. So, so
yeah, I I think I think some of it um comes
back to um a a bit recent like after I made the appointment for this, like I
feel like we've had a couple things kind of fall in place that almost helped us get unstuck from where from where we
were because it it had been two or three weeks of just like kind of like banging our heads against
things and And I like we finally had kind of a point where we kind of got a
little bit past some of this. Um I know certainly like
I don't know. Do you want to tell the story about running around in the kitchen, Alex Lex, or do you want uh at
at a friend's house? Oh, no. Just like Yeah. One of the one of the things that
we brought up that was bothersome to me is I don't feel like Jeff reads reads the room very well or
Real Change
just like can be childish in some ways. um is like yeah so we were at a friend's
house and Jeff was like running in circles in the kitchen with the kids just like having fun and we have friends
who are pretty anxious um about like their kids getting hurt or like doing anything that's just like maybe like
accident inducing um and I know that cuz she's one of my best friends and so I'm just like watching her just be so
anxious about like what Jeff's doing and I'm just like we need to stop this like like why isn't he noticing that like
this is an issue? Um, so anyways, and then at the end like one
of their kid their kid fell and smacked their face on the the ground and I just was like, "See, like look, like this is
so annoying. Like, you know, we've told you to stop." Like this is this is what like this is one of the things that just bothers me. I'm so annoyed. Um, and like
look, prove my point. Like there it is. Um, and I think what Jeff's mentioning as far as like one of the conversations
we've had um, with the life coach is like I really have an issue with like
trying to control other people's um, like I try to control other people's
emotions and try to control how other people are showing up. And I I'm sure I do that with with Jeff as well. Um,
so yeah. And I mean in regards to like is it working? I'm like, "Yeah, like the program's working for him to be like
sober and not acting out." Um, I guess.
Yeah. I don't know. Is Is that like Will sobriety fix all the problems?
No. It's kind of interesting hearing you guys talk because it's almost like it's caused more. Yes.
You know, now I'm more angry. I'm more kind of explosive. and our marriage, we're we're more stuck. You know, it's
like if we really and I know it seems crazy, but like 5 years ago till now,
are you happier now than you were 5 years ago
Energy Shift
in our marriage? Yeah, probably not. Right. I I I'd say certainly less happy.
I feel like our potential for joy is higher though. But that's just my
Okay. Yeah. And why do you say that, Jeff? Um
I mean, personally, yeah, I'm not numb to everything, right? Like I'm aware like I don't know how to say that. Like
I I really like uh I cherish those moments. Like it's kind of like the pain
paints such a a a dark backdrop so that when those like moments of light do come
in, they're just so much brighter. Um, and also I know that like they're not
going to be like it's not always going to be like this like joyful moment. So it's like I'm really trying to like
cherish those those moments of brightness more I guess because it's
like I know you know I don't get to stay there forever. And so I I think that
those those moments are yeah just much more uh for lack of a
better term like they're real. like it's just real. Like that's the nice thing about that is one nice thing about
sobriety is like stuff is real now, but that also means the pain is real. And uh
and so it's that tugofwar I guess.
I wonder if there's like a couple of things happening at the same time. And Brandon, you might be wanting to go a
different direction, so redirect me if you if you need to. But
um I you know with typical recovery Jeff you're sounds like you're kind of
working it. And I mean I even hear like Lexus is saying that she notices that you're sober but she also notices that
you're becoming aware of other things and she's now even more aware of those other things too and it's it like rubs
raw now because they're there in your face all the time. Um, and that doesn't make for a better
Marriage & Fear
marriage right now. But that is a lot of times part of the process of recovery. When you get start to get sober, then
you have to confront all those sec I call them the secondary character flaws that that have been protecting the addiction all along. And so now I've got
to deal with the fact that I like one of mine was that I was too checked out with my kids, you know, and I was like, "Oh
man, I'm not as present as I thought I was." And that had to be hard for my wife cuz she was probably screaming it the whole time. and now I'm realizing it
and now I'm still doing it but not fixing it all the way yet and she's like you know or yours is like maybe the
anger that's coming up and now you've got to work on that and that might even be more important than the acting out
right now except for the fact that the acting out numbs you from having to look at that right and so it's like it's like
when you start to look at the secondary character flaws if there's room for the continued work for recovery to include
all of that and not just your sobriety that becomes really important. And I
think one place where Brandon might be going and one of the reason I asked the question is is this is like when we get new clients who come into like our
groups, I tell them, I don't want you to come to group unless you show up every week and you're consistent.
And then it actually it's kind of a weird paradox because usually a little ways in they've been doing their work.
They they you start to see the traction being made and then one of them will call me and be like, "Hey, I'm missing
group this week." And I'll be like, "What? You can't miss group." and they're like, "No, I'm missing group this week because my kid has a ballet
thing and I'm going to go to that instead." And I'm like, "Hallelujah." Like, you're finally getting it. Like,
I'm going to be the person who makes choices based on my values. And guess what that is? That's recovery.
But now I'm doing it intentionally for the right reasons, based on our values.
Grounded Man
And so I think Brandon's maybe asking, are you are you in a spot where the 2.1
level of care is necessary for the progress you're making? And would it be
better to take a look at saying, you know what, I'm I'm also a husband and have two little girls and I'm going to
cash in one one group a week for reading a parenting book with my wife and making
sure we're on the same page or doing a date night even though she doesn't want to go with me right now because that's
going to be painful and we got to figure out how to get through that or you know like and I don't and I don't know I
don't want to push you out of a program that's working for you but it's worth asking the question like what's the overall goal and what is necessary for
what your goals are. Yeah, I think that that is something we've talked about and yeah, it's a
tricky place. Um, again, I'm stuck with this like I I've listened to a bunch of you guys'
podcasts, so I've been thinking about that uh salmon metaphor, like the salmon swimming up the river and then trying to
swim up and get up the waterfall and like when's the right time to like, you
know, break stuff down. And so, like, yeah, it's weird because like, yeah, I'm in this program and I I've been doing
the amount of meetings and it's working. Um, I feel like I've kind of gotten I've finally gotten to the place where I
don't I'm not super like pissed off at my sponsor anymore because of all the stuff that he makes me do. Like it's
kind of like, oh, I see that it it's worked. Um, and it's working. And so my
sponsor, he's pretty hard about the like four meetings a week thing. So like that
trying to go down a level on that and even like start to pair back. Yeah. It brings in kind of that fear of like,
well, okay, then am I still hitting enough stuff? Like, am I putting my sobriety and recovery at risk by doing
that? Or and I might have to go out there and find a new sponsor as well. Like, he he's kind of made it clear that
if I don't want to do that many, like I'll have to find a new sponsor. And so, that's where it's like
Letting Go
uh you know, there's Go ahead. Yeah. Well, Jeff, as I'm listening to you talk, it's it's
just like, you know, that you're getting the results that you're getting in your life. Like, that's what you're getting.
We can't get around that, right? And some of them are good. Yeah. And the question is is to zoom out and say, are
these what I want? And what I'm hearing in many ways, they're not right. But if
you keep doing the same thing and expecting different results, you know, and and I'm I'm hearing like a lot of um
do be have stuff going on. Do you know what I mean by that? I think so. Yeah. Yeah. If I do all the
things my sponsor tells me, if I do this, if I do that, if I then then I'll have recovery, then I'll be good enough
and then I'll have recovery versus shifting. And be do have is is a lot
scarier. It's more vulnerable because you shift into a place of I'm going to trust myself. I'm going to operate from
a place of my deep intuition, know who I am. I'm going to have boundaries with
people. Um, and I'm going to I'm going to live more authentically rather than be on a leash pulled around telling me
what I should and shouldn't do. Right? And my guess, and I'm kind of jumping to
the chase here because we only have so much time. My guess is deep deep down that's what that's what Lexus is craving
is a is a man who's who's grounded and knows himself and trusts himself. Um,
and so the the things that that you're doing, I think, are yielding some
positive results, but those positive results that you're getting actually are
giving you enough to say it's working, but you're actually not addressing the
real issue because of that because it's like this is working, this is enough,
but are you actually getting down to the real issue? And and you probably are in in some ways. Sounds like with your life
Self-Worth
coach and things like that, like you're doing some good work there. Yeah. But I would shift some things. I I'd do some
different work if if I were both of you actually. So, what do you hear me saying you guys?
Uh I mean, yeah. Like even just as you're saying that, like I recognize that
like I am way more dependent on Lex than I
care to admit as far as like getting my worth. Like if she's not if she's not happy, like how can I be happy? I've
obviously screwed up, you know? And so and and by the way, Jeff, with what you just said, sorry to be annoying. Where
does that give her any space to be unhappy? Where does that give her any it
doesn't, right? Because then you crumble, right? And then you can see why you're she's annoyed by you because
she's got to caretake for you rather than be her. Right. Right. So, all right. I will I'll I'll step out. Sorry.
Yeah. No, I No, I totally get it. Like, yeah. Yeah, it's something I'm recognizing and um yeah, so so there's
that part of it. So, still discovering and I mean even relisting to like kind of my last
episode, it's like yeah, I'm I think I'm still
learning who I I really am. like really like figuring out what those needs are,
figuring out like what my my strengths are, I guess, still as well. Like cuz I
I even to today like you know, if you ask me to like list out the things that like I'm good at or where I like I bring
the most I don't I don't know. And I mean, Lex could probably tell you like I
I still suck at taking a compliment because like I just don't believe what people say just because I don't I don't
believe it about myself. And so yeah, I like to to get to that place where I can
Shame Creeps In
where I can just be like I'm working on that. But
for me to say like, yeah, I could just be right now like I don't know. So I'm still having to like that's one of those
wrestles too, right? where I'm I'm trying to continue to ask God to like
uh give me that stuff so I can keep learning it so that that I can step into that um that that strength and just be
me because and it goes back to again what I said kind of the last episode is just like I've been so blind for so long
just like blinding like gaslighting myself like lying to everybody around like just so afraid and and some of just
my deep childhood wounds of just like uh like I just don't know what my worth
really is. So like for me to then step try and like step into that place of like oh yeah like I'm I'm good like I
like I'm worthy. Like that's it it's yeah that that's
that's work I need to be doing. So I I think that's that's kind of what I'm hearing is the place where you guys are
at in the work. And I I just maybe insert my own personal story with you here, Jeeoff, that something I see is
for so long I was so worried about losing everything important to me, my wife and my kids, that I would do
anything I could to make sure that my wife was placated and that I didn't mess up and that I didn't lose her. And it
was truly a fear-based energy. That's what Brandon's talking about with the be have do and the do have be stuff. But
over time, and this is the mi the middle stuff, and this is the stuff that I think your middle steps and the 12 steps
Trusting Self
actually really get at or hopefully what you're doing with your coaching, you start to kind of move into a place where
the energy has to shift for long-term success. And the energy for me went from fear to almost like anxiety and
possibility to a little sliver of whoa maybe I'm actually lovable to then the
burning energy of I already know I'm loved. And as that as that energy starts
to shift that is the sustainable energy of a long-term full recovery. And
sobriety will take care of itself when the energy is love.
Um, sobriety is hard to keep when the energy is fear.
Um, and and I think that that's like on your side of things, Jeeoff, I hear you being in the middle of that wrestle. I
love that you're there, dude. But that has to be the wrestle more than continuing to chase just the sobriety.
Yeah. Um, so I I also want to know, Lexus, like while Brandon was talking, I
was just watching your body language and there seemed to be like a couple of different emotions or thoughts that went through you.
What What was that? Yeah, I think um yeah, just a lot of
what he said is is a more beautiful what I feel like I haven't been sharing with
Fear Remains
Jeff. I think um I see a lot of fear in Jeff. Um, and
I think it's hard because yeah, he does have this sponsor who like tells him like XYZ needs to happen and and that's
really hard and I want, you know, it's what you guys are saying is like I want
him to act out of a place of what he values. Like I really want him to figure
out what he values and I want him to do and act like out of that space instead
of fear. I think and I think a lot of the ways he shows up that may be like
annoying to me or like whatever and and there's some of those things that are just, you know, silly and they're me
like it's it's like part of that's me. Um uh and but another part of it is I think yeah I see that he's sober and to
me it's like I see you're sober but are you really like like aligning yourself
with your values now? like like cuz right now it feels like you're still in the same loop of like you know being
away from us and like trying like and it's just like a hard balance of like maintaining sobriety, not being fearful
and like acting in a way that like like shows us that like your family is really
what you value. I I don't know. And I think it's hard because I think like I said
there's a lot of those like knots that we're trying to untie that have like come to fruition of like what like these
things of you know like oh now there's this anger part and there's this you know not
there's no numbing and I I I don't know. I guess I'm just saying like I want us to both be acting in a way that's like
not out of fear but out of love because I think we've been driven by fear for so
Disconnection
long. Mhm. Like like a lot of what both of us have done has been out of fear of
like you know it's like me being on like like cautious like is he acting out is he not like like just fear of all that
and like now we're in a place where he's sober but I'm like I'm still like we're still kind of in a place of fear of like
okay now you're sober like are we going to go like are we going to go back to that? Um, and then when you know I feel
like maybe our the way we act is not like aligning with our values, that's
that's hard for me. I think that's where some of the resentment comes. And I think it's a learning process. I don't know if Jeff or I have have ever been
like been practiced and like working out of a place that doesn't have some fear.
And so I think that's just something that we need to learn in order to get out of these places where we feel stuck.
Go ahead. Brandon, you go. No, please. I just one one observation then I'll kick it over to Brandon here. What you just
said, Alexis. So, I said Alexis, sorry, Lexus is so so beautiful that you're
saying, I see that in him, but I also feel it in me. And then I wonder like if if we're piecing this together now, part
of at least what you're saying is I want him to choose from his values, which would hopefully mean choosing us as a
Fear Blocks Love
family sometimes to be close to us. So I'm going to invite him to be close to us by being annoyed at everything he
does. Which which is another which is another way of saying I'm too afraid to actually
go with love and say, "Man, I'm I'm putting myself out there and I'd love for you to choose us tonight instead of
something else." Totally. So, I'm just going to kind of give you the message that I'm upset with you, but then when
you choose us, I'm going to keep you at arms length. Yep. And and that's that's a normal place for people to end up
being because it's scary to step back into the space as you guys are trying to. And I hear you both doing it. I
really do. I hear good work happening on both sides. So, go ahead, Brandon. Um,
yeah. I just I have really fat fingers, by the way.
And so if uh I want to give you an analogy here, like if let's say my wife
dropped her wedding ring down a drain and I stuck my finger down to try to get it, what would I do?
I'd push I'd push it further down the drain. I just go further down. Um
this is what your fingers are short though, too, Brandon. So I know it wouldn't go very far. Wouldn't go very far, would it? Um that that's what
happens with conversations like this with shame. So Jeff with you as as we're saying like hey yeah you should you
shouldn't show up in fear like just don't show up in fear and and and you feel shame about how you're showing up
weak and as we talk I can feel your shame Jeff. I can feel like yeah I want
to show up stronger but I don't and I'm just weak and I'm not showing up strong and we're just pushing that ring further
Ring Analogy
down the drain. Right. Um is that what you're feeling a little bit Jeeoff? Um,
a little bit like I I think it's I think it's more it's just like
Yeah. I don't I I right now I I'm not feeling that way
where it's like I can just recognize what you're saying is true. Yeah. Like I I I want to shift over more to love.
Like that that quite frankly is is what I need to do and and get out of that fear. Do you know how?
That's that's the part that's tricky. Yeah. No, like not not exactly. There's
one path. There's one path. And and this is same for you, Lexus. It's same for all of us as humans. Um if there's a you
know, like if there's a a mean dog chasing you and you're running everywhere you can and hiding from it,
um eventually to deal with that dog, what do you need to do? You gota stare that dog in the face and
you got to sit like in that vulnerability of like it's getting closer and I'm going to confidently look
in its face and let it know that I'm strong that I can handle this and and
Face the Fear
chances are that dog will turn around and walk away. Um, but if you're just running running and and when I say
running, it's things like compliance and trying to be good enough and you know,
let me give you some examples, Jeff. And and Lexus, this this could maybe trigger some things, but I'll give let me give
some stupid examples here. Let's say Jeff wanted to buy a fancy sports car,
just like this really nice sports car, you know, and and it's like God came down to you and said, "You need that
sports car. Like, you need it." And you're thinking, "Okay, I need to get
it." And Lexus is like, "We don't have the money. What should Jeff do?
You had a dream and God is like that sports car is important.
You need that. I I mean I'm obviously I I I need to buy
it. But no, but Lexus comes along and says, "No, you don't." Lexus tries to check you into a mental institution.
Forget about midlife crisis. Uh-uh. Not happening. What do you do, Jeff?
I mean, I guess I'm going to the mental institution until I can and go there
until they realize I'm not crazy and then I go try and buy the car still. Like, okay. So, what what I actually do
is probably not anywhere near those lines. I probably go find like a beater Toyota and be like, "Yeah, we did it."
Like, we we've stuck to the budget and we got the car. It's not the one that I
was told to get, but you know, somewhere along the lines. Listen to this example. What I'm saying though, like it's it,
you know, you doing something like this, um, it's s I hate to say this, but the
the dog that you're looking back at here is Lexus's, uh, like lack of approval.
Like, she doesn't want you in this example, she doesn't want you to buy the car. God's telling you, you get that
car. And and so Lexus will hate it, but she'll like it.
Values Clash
So she'll feel safe because now she's with a man only if there's principle behind buying the car. Yeah. God came
down. There's principle. There's faith. It's like clear that this is truth.
And so Lexus will hate it. But if there's principle behind it, like Tyler's saying, over time, when you show
up that way consistently again and again and again, all of a sudden you're a
stable, trustworthy man, right? And then she's going to want to be close to you. If you're selling out all the time again
and again, she's going to be right where she's at now, Jeff. Do where she's pushing away like, "Ah, I just don't
trust you. I You know, and she's got her own stuff she's working on, too, right?"
Um, do you see the principle though there? Um,
but don't don't go getting abusive and tell her you had a dream about buying a new car. It would be a motorcycle, a new
car. Make sure God actually tells you that. Yeah.
like you guys are giving ideas. Yeah, it's it's hard because because it causes
some some friction, but at the same time and and so yeah, don't we Tyler and I
see see guys swing the pendulum from weak guy like with no backbone and no truth to like okay now I'm going to show
you that's weakness too. Yeah. versus like I'm going to focus on my relationship with God here, trust myself
and act in this humble truth even when it is hard. That that's where strength is.
Right? A different version of that would be what we just talked about in the
relationship where she says, "Hey, I wish you would choose to invest in the time in the family a little bit more."
And then when you're there, she's like, "Why are you here? You you sweep the floor wrong. You do the dishes wrong."
like you never show up with the right kind of energy. You're always angry and then instead instead of disappearing,
you you still hang in there with her and acknowledge her feelings and then still stick stick to being there and being
present. Yeah, I was going to say I certainly don't wipe the counters down, right? That's for sure. Um yeah, I think
Showing Up
you know one of one of the things that's tough is like even right now I'm I'm kind of early in my career. um at a at a
startup and the work hours have been crazy and so I I've been working a ton of hours and um so that's just one more
place that I I'm not around enough and I it again I wish there was this black and
white like yeah like in the in the example that Brandon gave of like oh God's come down and been like okay you
need to get the sports car but it's like it's not that black and white it's so much more gray right so it's like on one
hand I'm I'm I'm here I'm working these hours I'm I'm trying to progress the career so I can provide for the family
and so that my that my so that my earning potential increases such that like I can create you know more space or
like hold things and so you know in one way I I come home and Lex is just
completely burnt out from the day right she's she's been dealing with these two kids and she's she's chosen to give up
uh her job recently which I think has always been something that she's kind of been holding on to and whether that's
like a like a almost like I'm self di or
I'm diagnosing this one like a way of her kind of holding on to the masculine she's very feminine so I think it was a
way of her holding on to the masculine like oh I can provide I can do this stuff and she's she's actually done
really good to like give that up because she realizes that's not congruent with her values but now she's she's feeling
stuck in that like being with the girls and and then I don't show up I don't get home and then when I do at home, you
Fear or Peace
know, I'm I'm beat like I I've been I've been working mentally and so yeah, to get that place of empathy of being like,
man, yeah, I see that you're you're having a hard time and like and to just hold that space, but then also know I'm
going to go back to work tomorrow as well. And like Jeeoff, I want to ask you, you say it's not that clearcut. Um,
do you know the difference between the a feeling of fear and a feeling of peace?
Uh fear is standing at the top of the diving board and uh peace is like after I've safely made it into the water and
I'm like that was a pretty sweet jump like interesting. Uh like I the I don't
have you have you ever had peace in figuratively speaking before you've jumped off the board where you just know
you've got to do it? It might hurt but it's the right thing to do and you are convicted in the peace that it's the
right thing to do. H
I I can't think of an example right now. I hope that if I scan my whole life, I could find one. But um yeah, you you can
have peace in dangerous situations. Yeah. All right. I
Oh, go ahead. I was just going to say like, you know, I worked through step
eight, I believe, or step nine, whichever ones where you got to go and make amends and stuff. And obviously
there was there was some peace in those moments of like this could suck like making this phone call to like make this
amends, but like it is what it is. It's the right thing to do. It's the right thing to do. So, I I think there's some
there, but I don't know that I've got a lot I don't know that I've got a lot of peace around like some of these these
bigger ones. Um I I think sometimes I've had some peace in like
the sharing my story more like kind of putting myself out there and being like
this is what I've gone through relate to any of this like whatever
because like that's kind of scary sometimes to see if anybody's like you don't know how people react when you share like oh hey you know actually I've
been dealing with an addiction for like last 15 years like right? Uh how are you
going to respond to this? So I think some of those places I've felt that peace uh rather than the fear. But Jeff,
if you were to and I want you to stop for a second and think about this before you answer. If you were to say, I go to
four groups a week because I feel peace about going or I go to four groups a
week because I'm afraid that if I don't, my sponsor will be mad. I I won't stay
sober. I and so fear is driving me to go to group or peace and truth is driving
me to go to group. So stop and think about it before you just knee-jerk reaction to that. And there's no right
answer here, but I want the honest truth. It's
it's a both and. Uh I love it, dude. Yeah, it's it's both. Like I certainly
and it's it's sometimes daytoday like um if it's Jeff if it's both and then could
you go to two groups a week and spend more time with Lexus
because that would be more balanced, right? Well, let him sit with it for a second.
It's it's yeah that's it's a tough spot. There's
the the first thing that comes up is like yeah the fear of like oh I'm gonna have to like have this conversation with
my my sponsor. I'm gonna have to take that you have tried to have I have tried
to have this. Yes. Yes. Tried to have and and what I did was I came up with, you know, it used to be that I was going
to all night meetings. And so what I did is I I started a new meeting that was at 6:30 a.m. that I could get up to so I
had more nights at home so that I could like um so that Lex could have a night
to go out. So I've tried to find the the creative places in there. Um
and but is that to avoid his wrath? Like I love sponsors like your sponsor. Like
props. too. This guy's the man. And at the same time, like are you going to step up for you of like what is actually
working for you? Even even if you know this guy's intense.
Yeah, that's I and that's where it comes back to that both end is like
some of it's fear and some of it's like yeah, this works and so I'm still Yeah,
I'm still like having that. So I could the the I think the biggest issue here
is like my sponsor has made it so and I already hate just saying that because I've already given the power away right
to my sponsor. But um yeah there's like I need to go back and have the
conversation again with him and talk to him because now I have a sponsy there seems like there might be some room to
where anyway that that's going to decide. He made it seem as though I'd
have to go get a new sponsor if I wanted to drop that down. So it's not necessarily as simple as
it's not as simple as like oh I can just try this like two meetings a week and I can figure out like oh that doesn't
actually work for me I need to like go to more it's if I decide to do that it's I'm going on this journey of finding a
new sponsor uh likely need to restart the steps that all process yeah like
what does that do as far as my sobriety like there it So, so Jeeoff, the point
that Brandon's making is whatever you decide to do, own it. Yeah, certainly.
Yeah. And and own it from a place of having thought that through and say, you know what, this sponsor is that valuable
to me that I've got to keep it this way for this and this and this and this reason. And then you can go and you can
have that conversation with Lexus and let her be upset at you about that, but know that you made it because you
thought it through and you're acting on certain reasons and principles, right? We're out of time and yeah, we could we
we haven't even really gotten all the way to Lexus's side. I want a whole episode with Lexus. Yeah, I want to invite you guys back too sooner than
later cuz we're just we're just diving in and I you know, God hath not given us
the spirit of fear, but of power, love, and a sound mind. Um, healthy masculinity is about is about channeling
your anger and aggression for good. Um, it's about living on the edge. It's about being a warrior and and being able
to be honest and authentic. And Jeff, your work that you're doing, I want to
give you props because you've done awesome work, but now it's time to do
deeper work. It's time to go further. And Lexus is a great reflector back to
you of like, hey, this isn't quite like what I, you know, we're going for here.
Um, and uh, you are capable, Jeff, of dealing with your shame and your trauma
and becoming that powerful, safe, strong man for her. Um, I know you are, Jeff.
So, I really appreciate you guys coming on, your vulnerability. I'm serious. I'd love to have you back soon. We would
love to have you come on if you're willing again. And if you didn't get too beat up this time around,
they'll beat us up a little more. Okay, Alexis, I I loved having you and your presence here today. I know that you're
asking really good questions, and I could see a lot of people are just going to listen and not see, but I could see things kind of moving through you, too,
in terms of your own work going, "Oh, I I could look at it this way," or, "Oh,
this or that." I I see things turning in you, too, and I'd love to address those sometime. So, yeah. Um, thank you guys.
Thank you to our listeners for being here. Thank you to you guys for coming on. We love to have couples especially.
So if anybody else is out there listening and wants to come get put through the ringer that that Jeff and
Lexus just did, um, go to therapyros.org and sign up to come on the show. We'd love to talk with you guys. And until
next time, keep on keeping

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