How Can I Become Safe To The People I Have Hurt Without Rushing The Process?

How can I become safe to the people I have hurt without rushing the process?Brandon, what's going on, man? You look you look extra alive today for somereason. Dude, you freaking Yeah.Yeah, man. I don't even know where to begin.What are you What are you talking about? Oh, yeah. Oh my gosh.Um, so we show this video um in our our group. I have for yearsshown this video and it's this dude who shoves his girlfriend off a 500t cliff.She's she's connected to a rope but she doesn't want to jump off and so he shoves her off and it's massive. It'slike crazy. It's down in southern Utah. Anyways, Chase, uh, our our other guy,Chase, he's like, "Hey, I want to I want to do something with you guys, you know, likejust we'll just reccalibrate ourselves. Make sure we're going the same direction." He's like, "Let's go down to Moab. I setup this like jeep ride, this like fun jeep ride, and it's like, okay, it sounds fun, whatever." Well, I didn'tknow the jeep ride was taking us to that rope swing. And we get there yesterday. This isyesterday. And we get to this massive cliff and like I am on my knees likefive feet from the edge and Tyler's like, "Yeah, what would it be like to jump off that thing?"Half an hour later, I was jumping off.Holy crap. We got drone footage. We're going to put it on so people can see it. the wholeIt was so It was so funny because we we roll up to the cliff and I had barelyjust figured it out myself on the drive up. I'm like, "Oh, this is like I think this is that rope swing thing." So, I kind of look at Chase and he's like, "Bequiet. Be quiet. Don't tell Brandon." So, then we get up to the one side of it and we look over the edge and Brandon is not 5t away. He's 30 feet away from theedge of the cliff on his hands and knees trying to look over. And meanwhile, me and Chase are on the edge of it looking over. And then Chase is like, "Brandon,what would it be like if you like jumped off that thing?" And he's like, "Oh my gosh, no way." And then Brandon stands up and Chase is like, "But what if youreally did jump off of it?" And then Brandon pretends to like raise his arms. He's like 30 feet away from the cliff like he's jumping. And then Chase islike, "But what if you really did jump off?" And I looked over and I saw the the rope across the whole thing right. I waslike, "Oh, hell no. Uh-uh." And then and then like 10 seconds laterI was like, I guess I'm doing that. Yeah.Yeah. And and and it it literally So last year I did a a shark dive with uh no sharkcage, just sharks everywhere, tiger sharks with all my kids. And it was itwas crazy. And uh the shark dive was nothing compared to John. Holy cow.Geez. Yeah. Um, it was it was it was a great day. It wasa great day. Gotta jump. You got to jump. You know, you got to take some risks in life. That's the metaphor for the day. You gotto jump. Oh. Okay. Well, anyway, we've got we've got a realgift today. Um, because we have someone who's actually really special to both of us. Someone who's kind of been aroundthe block with us and done a lot of what we've had to offer in the past. and just a guy with a heart of gold. Umhe's willing to come on and continue his journey and ask some questions. So Eric, we're so glad you're here with us today.Man, I'm so happy to be here. Like it's it's an honor and a privilege. You know, youguys have like been brothers to me and Ijust think the world of you both and appreciate all the work that you guys do. This is like this is like the groundzero for men really, you know, finding recovery like true like lastingrecovery. So, I'm just, you know, grateful to be a part of your show today. You know, Eric, I I I remembertalking to your your ex-wife and um a couple years ago and she was kind ofsharing a story and I'd never met you and and I was kind and this this happensa lot, but as as I was listening to her, I was kind of thinking like, why hasn't she left him yet? You know, like hedoesn't sound like a good guy. Um and I didn't know you from Adam. I didn't even know your name. Um, and then uh you gotin my group and and I got to know you and I was like, "Oh, oh, like this manis a good man who who has some demons and has some things that he's had to work through." Um, and I'll let youshare that story. But, uh, it's it's awesome for me to to like just kind ofhear the story, but then actually get to know you and then actually witness a lotof your healing process. It's been incredible for me. So, let's back up alittle bit, Eric, if you could share your story. Um, give the audience just a little bit more of an idea of of what'shappened and and the process that you've been through. Yeah. Um so my my story kind of beginsum you know in a lot of like anxiety and fear um you know from you know kind oflike my own family of origin. Um, and also I think just really likegenerational trauma like as I've done all the work like I don't think in youknow the same kind of terms now like I I have like a a new language and it's beena beautiful process for me to like learn that language uh because you know thatfear and that anxiety that I have like also transfers into shame you know shamethat you I didn't fully understand. I didn't, you know, I didn't have,you know, uh, an upbringing where there was practiced vulnerability and practiced, you know, true honesty. Andso, uh, my story, yeah, from just two weeks old, I was out at Lake Powell as anewborn baby in this very, you know, small, powerful boat. and just the boat,you know, the roar of that engine and like the bouncing on, you know, the waves. Like, I mean, I was a baby, solike, you know, I'm I'm, you know, pretty well taken care of by my family, but if you can also imagine that'sprobably overwhelming, you know, being I mean, I just held a baby uh this past weekend and I thought of that like Iwould never have taken a baby on that boat. Umanyway, uh and then other things, you know, that I've kind of identified in,you know, my my past. Eric, do you remember do you remember that?I don't, but I think my body I think my body does. I think our bodies hold on tostuff in our our our brains and you know and and I believe that you know, we'reall we have neuroplasticity. So, you know, we can, you know, correct, you know, even things that we don'tremember, like I I feel like we can help heal them through uh just the work thatwe have have done. Um and so anyway, yeah, the one I do remember and this oneI've kind of shared with, you know, the the men in the group and um I was abandoned like I just, you know, like alittle, you know, four, five-year-old boy left at church and I thought I'dnever see my family again. like it was like just the you know most you know kind of like harmless story as far aslike you're at church like you were safe. Uh but for me is like I saw my family driving away I was thinkingthey're abandoning me like I will never see them again. I I didn't understand. And so, um, yeah, I' I've been able tojust have these experiences where I recall the the things in my past andthat that is the root. Like I before I got married to Camille,um, I was I was afraid like I didn't I didn't have a porn problem. I didn't have a masturbation problem. I had ananxiety problem. And I told her like, I have anxiety. like I didn't know if shewould reject me or if she would stay with me and she was just kind of likewell everybody does you know it's like but for me I I I I have you know I don'tknow if like I'm neurologically different like with you know highly sensitive person or I I have I strugglewith ADHD struggle with depression um clinical anxiety like I've done all thethe testing I've I've taken medications like I've had my brain shocked. I've done everything. Um and you know I thinksome of my problems like with uh you know looking at pornography or you knowum really kind of like I think rage you know and anger like blowing up becausethat's what my you know anxious little self like experienced um as you know a son in my family. I wasone of five boys. I was the middle child. Um I was, you know, probablyneglected quite a bit. Um just kind of forgotten about. AndI just have been able to experience now like this uhability to overcome um that fear and doing hard things. Um like this issomething that I never would have done before um coming on a show. Um, andbasically from that experience that I had, I unknowingly kind of didthe same to my own sons, you know, with a lot of uh high expectations. You know,I kind of missed over that, you know, that part of, you know, my my dad was very kind and loving, but then also whenhe was out of his window of tolerance, he was really, you know, abusive and, you know, difficult. Um, and he, youknow, was never really vulnerable even to apologize. And so with me and mykids, like I was just thinking, well, I'm father of the year because, yeah, I did something wrong, but I would comeback and I would say, you know what, like I'm really sorry. Like, I should not have done that. And I just thought,yeah, that's how you did things. like but it was you know for Camille and youknow my sons it was it was very um challenging for them to feelthat I was actually going to not come back and do the same things like as I would lose my temper and you know beeither verbally or emotionally abusive. And then, you know, with my sons, like there were times that I was physicallyabusive. Um, you know, just out of, you know, anger and, you know, um, not anything, you know, like super, youknow, uh, I guess aggressive, but at the same time, like I don't know what damagethat caused them. Um, and I I can see that now. I can I can see thethose those scars that I've I've caused on them. And it's just this ability nowto kind of come to peace and come toforgiveness of myself. Uh because I I I was angry like I was angry at myself andI was projecting that anger onto my family and also onto my father and mymom. um you know they were just doing the best that they can and and I'm ableto forgive and have empathy towards others but I've really struggled to have empathy and compassion for myself. Umand you know this rising sun's uh retreat that I was just like just anhonored you know guest. That was like last month, I guess, to to kind of side up and show up. And Camille, like shehad, you know, her time to go to Utah, like for some other things with her family. Uh we live in El Paso, Texas. Umshe was so gracious enough. I just said, "I don't know why, but I'm supposed to go to this thing." Um we've we'veremained very, you know, close friends and, you know, just co-parents. And shewas just like, "Sure." So she, you know, let me go. And the experiences that Ihad there were nothing short of miraculous as far as like reallygetting to the roots that you guys talk about on this show, the roots of your trauma. And that is wherethat is where the light like literally came into my heart as we you know didbreath work. Like it wasn't anything crazy. wasn't, you know, plant-based medicine. And I've I've tried all that stuff, too. And it was this conversationthat I had with God that was is sacred to me. Andand basically, yeah, the the conversation was that you your brothersare here. Be with them. Be present. And I'vestruggled to be present my whole life because I've lived in the past. Like I've tried to like relive things Ishould have done better. And then it's just like this constant cycle of just self-sabotagebecause of the roots of of that fear and that anxiety and that anger. You knowthat I was left as a little boy and I didn't deserve that. And then I hatedmyself because I wasn't good enough to be remembered. And I remember hiding inthe back of my family car afterward just to see to prove, you know, if they wouldremember me. And that is a horrible place to live your whole life to justhide and play small and not know who you really are. And and I know thatmy faith is what grounds me. my faith in Jesus Christ. He is the reasonwhy most of us show up for our families and do the things that we do because we love them. We want to serve them. And Ihave found that that is 100% my purpose is to live in that integrity of love andservice towards God and love and service towards my family and love and servicenow towards other men. because I know that as I set an example for my own sonsto continue to show up and love their mom, regardless of whether we're, you know, married or not married, I'm goingto be that example to them of how you treat and respect your mom and women.And I don't hold any I I actually have somuch gratitude and so much love and appreciation, you know, for this situation that I've been in. Like it'sbeen hell, but the last two years like I have had so much growth and so manyopportunities that have been so uncomfortable and so just literally like the most painthat I've ever felt in my whole life combined. And I've been able to come throughbecause of the community of men and because of music,just Christian, you know, rock music. Like, I just I just like love it now. Um, and then through community, through,you know, the the great and amazing people and men that I've met. And then, you know, to have 50 plus other new newbrothers added to, you know, my Marco Polo. Um it's it's been such a breath offresh air. Um every day I I'm more excited to have those than reals or youknow anything else that's out there. Like it's just it's connection. And I I recognize that vulnerable, honest, openconnection about your problems with other men is what will heal you and stayand keep you on the path of recovery from, you know, anything that you're struggling with.And so yeah, again I Eric Eric, can I ask you a question?Sure. And you've been on quite a journey and I'm just wonderingyour situation now is you're you're divorced, correct? Yeah.And but you're still close with your ex. You're like you say good friends still.Yeah. Um, and like how how are you as you talk about your healing and yourhealing journey and and the light coming back in like in what ways do you show updifferent now? Um, in your relationship with her, but also in your relationship with your kids, like in in what whatthings are you noticing that are different for you now now that you've gotten some answers and felt somethings? Um, I think what's different now is this ability just to feel intense peaceand love um for for my boys and and and just beingpresent and you know my and and and with you know Camille aswell. um you know, as much of you know, I guess a connection as as she allowscuz I'm I'm I'm still Yeah. like I I love and you know, adore her. Like II've not lost that like um and and I know that I can't, you know, um forcethat. Um and I have to just surrender that she needs to have her time to doher own thing. And I think in the in the interim like I have been really focusing on being the best man that I can be andthe best father and I'm I'm not perfect like I you know still make mistakes andI still um show up at times where you know like Kimmel had said in you know her uhpodcasts that there's still threads like I'm still human. I'm still going to, you know, start to like but I I I recognizeit much sooner like there's, you know, physiological things that are happening and and I can kind of tell like as I'mdoing, you know, exercise and like eating, you know, better and doing my own self-care, like I have more of a atank, uh, a reserve that I can kind of pull from and I can kind of know like,hey, like, and I and I am teaching my kids like the same things that, you know, I'm doing like I' I've been doingsauna and cold plunging and uh, you know, like walks with Jesus in my neighborhood. Like, I'm getting my kids,you know, to be engaged in. And I've created just like this really safe environment for them um at at thislittle house that I'm renting, which is, you know, just maybe 5 minutes from, you know, where where Camille is. And theythey choose to be, you know, here with me a lot. And um it's it's just beenthis beautiful moment for me to like really nurture and care, you know, for them and model healthy masculinity asI'm, you know, explaining, you know, what's kind of, you know, happening in them as I kind of see parts of me inthem. Um, so yeah, I think it's it's been definitely,you know, a a much safer and much healthier experience.I I love to hear your journey, Eric, and I love to hear kind of the the shiftingthat's been happening and it seems like has happened a lot in your heart towardsreally towards an acceptance of yourself as much as everything else. It feelslike the energy that I'm getting from you is more of a of an acceptance of self and less of this scramble to hurryand repent or get better or and I actually feel like that's maybe the theenergy that you're cultivating right now might be the biggest gift you're going to be offering to your kids as you move forward. Um I do want to be helpful toyou too, Eric. You came on the show and we're asking you all the questions and the story, but you also came onhopefully because you wanted some help. And I think your your question was, "How do I become safe again?" And Ithink you're kind of answering your question with your story right now, but how do I become safe again to the peoplethat that I've hurt without needing to rush the process? And then the other part of your question that isn't in thethe question on online here is I think the distinguishing like the differencebetween performing humility versus real surrender.Um, and I guess I'm just wondering likeinside of inside of that, how how are you doing at being able to kindof be self forgiving, self-compassionate, allow yourself room for process while you're still in themidst of trying to repair these relationships? I think it's it's kind of like the thejourney like it's it's not going to be perfect like you know I I don't have everything figured out like yet likeI think this this whole life is that that process but I am 100% committed toit and I I always have been um committed to self-improvement like my my wholelife because I've never been satisfied with you know umhow how I've kind of shown up and so and it's and it it isn't about perfection. Ithink that's been part of you know my you know Achilles heel. It's it's aboutreally trying to be present and also having goals to move you know towardsexcellence. Um, yeah, there's just there's and there's so much informationout there. Um, and you can get lost in in all the different information andself-help stuff, but it it really for me comes back to Jesus Christ.As as I focus my time and my energy towards JesusChrist and, you know, kind of now that some healing stuff has happened, I don'tneed to be 100% all the time in, you know, the the mix of like the healingand all the other things. like I just need to embody what a life as a disciple of JesusChrist would look like and and that is again love and service toeverybody that I am in contact with. SoI just think you know I'm going to out uh Tyler here. you had like inquiredabout the retreat and and uh Tyler's like, "Hey, Eric wants to sign up and Iwas like, "Yeah, get him there." Like, "We want Eric there." And I think Tylerdropped the ball a little bit. I I did drop the ball bad on you, Eric. In fact, I I reenacted your childhoodtrauma, I think. Oh my god. I didn't even think about that, but yeah.And but but if I knew you were in the back of that car, I'd come looking for you, Eric. Oh, thank you. Appreciatethat. But, and I think I've told you this, Eric, but like like you you know why Iwanted you there, right? Yeah. You you you had told me that Ihave a piece about me. And that was like the single mostbeautiful thing that anyone has ever said to me. And I I I truly appreciate that. uhcoming from, you know, a person that I love and admire. Brandon, thank you.Yeah. I I I don't know, Eric. It's It's likewhen the shame and the trauma starts to clear. Um you get to just show up as you andum God God made you for something. Um, and so I've been I've been blessed towitness you in real vulnerable situations with other men. And there'sthis peace about you. There's this this like quiet strength about you that canreally give love to others. Um, and and so like when Tyler's like, "Hey, thisEric guy reached out." I was like, "Get him there." Because uh and that's exactly and that's exactly how he showedup at the retreat. Even more so than I've even ever seen. And um and Inot only did he show up at the retreat, he brought his own portable sauna.Well, I think what I I talked to you, you you did say, "Yeah, bring it." So, yeah, I I brought it. And yeah, someguys were like, "That's a little weird, like why weird at all." Yeah. But yeah, the men that you knowwent in there had Yeah. an incredible experience and yeah, it's it's it's veryconnecting the sauna experience and that's one of the things that you know um two of my older sons like absolutelylove and we do that like literally every night that they're here and they youknow I I kind of started it last year you know in the separation and kind of doom and gloom that I was feeling youknow for uh the divorce that was kind of happening and they kind of took it overcuz like earlier this year. Like I've been Yeah. I've been in a a dark place again. Like I you know it there's lotsof caves that I I needed to go through. Like you know for for someone to be inthis position like you know for the other men that are out there you have to do the time like you have to do the theself-suffering and the self- introspection and just being alone. Thatwas what I feared the most. And that is what I had to do. But I didn't have todo it because I had amazing sons that would just come and do whatever crazystuff dad was doing. Getting into, you know, hot, you know, saw tents and like cold ice cold water. They they did itwith me. And I I just like like more than anything, I justlove and adore my sons. And I'm trying to father them now theway that I should have been fathering them all along. And that's what my my goal and you know mywhole life's mission is now to do is just to continue to make them just thegreat men that I've been able to you know come to know as as part of like theseeither retreats or men's groups or just you know anybody really but especially the ones that have gone through you knowwhatever happened to them that put them into a position to need to numb themselves out with whatever you know itis that they're trying to numb out from. Um, I was reading a I was reading aparenting book and it was an interesting book and it was giving all these tipsand stuff and then I talked to somebody and they said they gave me some adviceand they said and it's the best parenting advice I've ever heard and they they said the best thing you can dofor your kids is to be Brandon is to be you. You know and it's likeyeah, Eric, be Brandon. I know. I was like, "Okay, the best thing for Eric to do for hissons is to be Eric, right?" And and so like the shame and the trauma reallywhat that does is it it uh it it it getsyou confused about who you really are and then you start acting out in these different ways and trying to prove love,over apologize, all this stuff, right? And what I'm hearing from you, Eric, isfinding this peace within your soul of knowing who you are. And then and it'san energetic thing. It's a when you show up with your boys, if you want to father them with confidence and and peace, thenyou know who you are and you show up as Eric and that's what they need from you.Um, and that's what it sounds like you're shifting into. And it it itsounds like it's it like really paying dividends for you to do your own personal trauma work, for you to connectwith these other men, for you to find some peace and healing and feel that light again. It's the best parentingwork you could possibly do. Well, and as a result to cultivate a new relationship with Christ.Yes. You know, uh I think that's part of like at the core of your question, what Brandon's saying, Eric, I'm going totake it just a step further and you can tell me what you think of this. umhow do I be help become a safe man again to the people I've hurt without rushing theprocess or performing humility versus real surrender? And I would actually say what Brandon's describing, it's adifferent way of looking at humility. But what if humility wasn't an actualradical self-acceptance? What if what if humility wasknowing what I'm good at and accepting it and throwing that light out into the world and knowing what I'm weak at andbeing committed using my agency to work on it. And then the surrender part would be giving all of myself, both thepositive and the negative back to my relationship with my higher power, in your case, Christ. And and when I'mdoing that, I am the secret ingredient now in the lives of my children. My children get tosee and partake in all of my strength and all of my goodness that I've been putting under a bushel for years becauseof my shame and trauma. And I was talking about this with Brandon this weekend while we were on our trip. Itseems that one of the greatest gifts we can give our children is how we handle the aftermath of one ofour negative traits coming out on them. And maybe I snap at my daughter oversomething and I lose my cool because I have a human moment and I didn't regulate my emotions and in theaftermath I go to her in my humility and say, "Hey, that was out that was outsideof my character and I'm really sorry and I should have said this or done this instead of that and here's the boundarystill and here's how much I love you." How often do your kids be like, "Nope,sorry." Our kids are like, "Whoa."Like, "Dad just said he was sorry, and I love him still." And like, and that'swhat real humility is. It's It's just pure self-acceptance.Yeah. I I love that. Um I have tried, you know, like one of theguys Yeah. Yeah. because I was saying, you know, radical acceptance and then he said I think rigorous radical acceptanceand so throw another R word. Yeah. I'm like just make it rigorous.Yeah. And so I I I I I really, you know, lovethat because it is like it is humility just to be who God has made you to beand to not perform. And and that's been like, you know, part of like me too, thinking that that's what I had to do toget what I wanted is to perform. And also, yeah, like me and my family oforigin, my my brothers, like we we love to laugh. We love to make fun of everything because that was a survivaland a coping mechanism. And and now like my my boys are kind of the same. Butthen I'm kind of also because of just me being me. I'm like I'm like the papabear of like this like fun just rowdy group of just like just the mostkind-hearted loving souls that you would ever like get to know if you could knowget to know my my sons. And I I love and adore them just for them being them likeyou know and I'm I was so focused on their faults like I was just focused onmy own faults that I lost I lost sight of what mattered most and and I I playedlike Gustapo like Nazi KGB trying to find you know when they were using youknow things drugs and other stuff that we were trying to you know clean up their life from. And it was it was sohypocritical like to a certain degree for me, you know, with with the pornography, but I I struggled to evenlet them know until a little bit later. And that would have been such a a different experience, I think. Um butagain, I was just living in in fear. And so, um, I think this is just so helpfulto, you know, to model that humility, you know, to my sons andhave them, you know, kind of maybe break down some of the walls of their own shame and fear so much sooner than ittook me. And so that's where the generational trauma thing, you know, kind of ties in where I feel that is,you know, a calling, you know, to help help them and to really make sure thattheir their kids someday will not have to endure what I endured, what what theyendured from me and what my father endured from his father. And I thinkwhen you put that into perspective, it just becomes so beautiful and so transformative, especially when you, youknow, apply the atoning grace of Jesus Christ into that. And and know that heis the healer, the master healer for all. Andthat that just gives me great peace and great hope. And it you don't have to be perfect. Like you don't have to go tochurch. you don't have to, you know, do all the different things. It's great if you do, but it's not a requirement. Likeyour your heart is what will, you know, be, I think, judged later on and whathappened to you and what your experiences were. And I think as we have the opportunity to like get to knowothers and hear like their true and vulnerable stories, we relate and we have compassion and love. And I thinkthere's going to be more of us good people than there will be people that are horrible. Um because we all havethat light of Christ in us. You know, Eric, as you're talking, it's like I just hada kind of breakthrough of and I've said this before, but the way to breakgenerational trauma is to finally have somebody be willingto feel and sit in the pain. Absolutely. And as you were talking, it it hit meof, you know, Christ in Gethsemane. Um, you know, it's like that's all hedid. That's what he was doing. Um, and, uh, I think of jumping off thatcliff yesterday and there was a threshold there. there. It was like thethis line of like I'm standing here and over that line is a 500 foot drop andthat's terrifying. Um, and I I think a lot of people spend their whole lifeknowing that there's pain to deal with and there's pain to feel, but terrifiedof it and not willing to be like, I I I'll do it. Like, I'm willing. And umand I just think of our savior and his willingness in Gethsemane to just sit and take it and be there. Andyou know um as you talk about your sons and notwanting them to go through the generational trauma that you've been through. I know Christ is there for usand Christ can hold all our pain. But your willingness to have the courage enough to go to a rising sun, to gothrough group, to do this work, to face like you're you're divorced now, Eric.You could be off just living the crazy life, destroying yourself right now. Butbut you're sitting with us right now. You're doing the work stillfor better or worse. Yeah. But but you're doing the work still and you'rethat pain, right? Yeah, I you know I I've been on three dates. Um and I'm notperfect. Like I I did break my covenants because I thought this was the person.And I own that. Like and I I feel horrible because it it didn'twork out. Like you know I I thought it maybe would but umthat is not who I am though. like and and that's like another another just realization. And this this happened, youknow, also as a result of my brother jumping from an overpass in Dallas,Texas in April this year, which is why I I wanted to come to the rising sun because I went into Yeah. just a a verydark place. andtalk about, you know, your your your jump. Um that that like brokebroke me, broke our family, like broke he was a father of four two beautifulgirls, two beautiful boys andthat that experience it was just horrible. And he sufferedgreatly from mental health problems and from you know and yeah even me likethinking you know my story of putting a dead tarantula in his diaper when he was two and giving my mom a heart attackwhen she found it later that night when she was changing his diaper. Like that was funny. Like we made fun of that andI was thinking that that was somehow some just psychological trauma that Ihad done to him. And sothat that wasn't the problem though. Like whatever the the humility and radical rigorous acceptance is thatwhatever has happened has happened outside of our control. We can't control it. We just have to surrender it back toGod. And it was the Thursday going into Easter weekend. And so Easter now willalways have like a sacred importance and meaning for me because Iknow that my brother Jason will be okay.He went through some really difficult stuff in his life and it's been so easyto, you know, kind of judge and, you know, nitpick all the different, you know, things that he was doing wrong.But there was so much that he was doing good and and we celebrated that. Andthere was people, neighbors, like friends from different places. I mean, he he went down to his mission that hehad served in Peru again and met up with people. He hasn't, you know, he left the church and, you know, hehad a second, you know, wife that was just beautiful and awesome. um Caitlynand and he was going through another divorce because he wasn't willing to accept help. He was so closed off. Butanyway, um yeah, sorry going on another, you know, ramble, but again, it it comesback to us taking the jump, just calling somebody a friend, you know, calling umyou know, just anyone for help. And sometimes it's God. Yeah.You know what I'm hearing? I'm hearing that you're still processing that pain. I'm I'm I am I am for sure. Yeah.It's okay. And you don't need to be at a place ofcomplete peace and understanding there with that. And yeah, and umand you're in the process of that and and I just want to say to you like I'm so sorry to to hear that.Amen. I I agree. I uh I know we're out of time here today, but I want to just add one morething to kind of where the conversation has gone today because I see you this way. Uh Brandon and I were listening toa talk by Carl Jung yesterday and he was talking about empathsand I see you as an empath. Brandon and I are empaths. Yeah. and we're kind of misunderstood.But something that Carl Jung really stood out to me and you it goes along with how do I become the kind of man my kids need or like how do I help heal orhow do I help how do I break this generational trauma? And in the talk he talked about specifically generationaltrauma and the value that an empath has on breaking generational trauma.And what he said is the empath becomes the mirror and the one who can reh hold and reflect all of the pain that nobodyelse would like to acknowledge. And then he said three things go along with being the empath and breaking yourtrauma, the generational trauma. It's being able to go into a dark place withsomebody and to say, "I see you.I'm not leaving you and I'm not you.So here I am offering and you used the word earlier today. I'm offering my fullpresence to you while I'm allowing you to still be you. And I'm not going anywhere.And I'm the one who can help hold and reflect some of this stuff that most of us don't like to look at.Um, and I can hold my shape there. So,um, thank you for your sharing today. I'm sorry to hear about your brother, Eric. I know that that's still anongoing process. And I imagine that even telling thestory of the tarantula, there's something inside of you that's still working itself out. Andyeah, and I just want to say that I see you and I see that work happening. Um, yougot a couple comments from the chat here. I'll just share and then we can wrap it up here. But number one is uhthe Undertaker said, "Sauna time was awesome." And uh and we got another one from Edthat says, "I love you, Eric. Thanks for sharing your story. I'm lifted by your dedication to live wholeheartedly."So um man, I love I love getting those comments from you guys and you guys see your brother here and I love that. Likeit's really beautiful. So, Eric, thank you so much for your willingness to come on and just share you, just be you. Andwhat a what a gift it is for me and Brandon to know you. Likewise. I love you guys. Yeah.Um, what a way to start the day. It's good talking to you, Eric. And, uh, definitely do not be a stranger withwith us. Come on back with another question in a couple of months. Yeah. Yeah. I I would love to Yeah. check backin and you know like literally miracles are happening in my life right now and I feel so blessed and so much gratitude.So thank you guys again for all you do and thank you to all my my brothers that'll be here in this uh this uh thispodcast and giving me feedback. So love you guys. You guys, if this was helpful,um, or if you just want to shout out to Eric and give him a little bit of love and support, um, you can leave a re areview and you can share this episode. And until next time, keep on keep it on.