I Can’t Seem To Move On After Divorce

“I can’t seem to move on after divorce”

I can't seem to move on after divorce. Tyler, what's up, my man?What's going on, dude? You going to go up uh skiing with methis year? I want to. You guys are uh We were talking I was talking with Paisley about it. My daughter, she she wants to go alot more. She loves skiing. and and I said, "Well, we could go think about getting the pass like uh you know, likeBrandon and his family did." And she said, "I don't think I could keep up with any of them, Dad. I'm a little tooembarrassed." And I said, "I think I think you'd catch your feet." I guarantee she could. I guarantee.And I I Pais is like Reed's favorite person. I I think that would be like hisdream day to ski with Paisley. Oh, he would just love it.I guarantee she could He's a good skier. He can do a lot of like crazy double black diamond stuff, but he, you know,he's he's he's shag. Like he's not he's not quick, you know. He he likes to sayhe is, but yeah, she would love she would love that. We really should get together for a day on the slopes. If if we get anysnow here in Utah, it's going to be like 50s again this week. And so don't I know. Dang it. Like come on.Let's pray for cold and snow. So let's make it happen. Um well, we have an old guest back onthe show today. Um, Vanessa, welcome back. Thank you.Um, if you could fill us in from the last time we talked, we talked. It was It was last winter, right?Uh, it was this year. I think it was It was just like in January. Yeah. Okay. February. I was pretty spun out still.Yeah. Right. So, if you could fill us in, kind of discern things. You were feeling pretty like amped up like you said. umyou've caught a different question here today and it'll be good to kind of get a snapshot of where you're at and continue to try to help you.

Vanessa returns: one year after the divorce

Thank you. I appreciate that so much. Um, snapshot is definitely the question that I pose which is it's been almostit'll be a year towards January 1 that I've been divorced and I am still youknow I think just really grieving a lot of things like the entire relationship.Um, and then grieving parts of my ex-husband. Um, of course, cuz he wasn'tlike a terrible guy in every sense of the way, right? Just what he was hidingwas not healthy and destructive. So, um,a little snapshot this year has been I moved five times this year. So, that'sbeen a little it's been a lot for me. I ended up with my sister-in-law and my brother-in-law up here in Sandp Point.Um, and got myself like a housesitting gig for the winter so I could just kind of, you know,find some grounding for myself where I know I'm going to be in a consistent space. And being with my brother andsister-in-law was really good. We got to talk about a lot of things um, as a kindof like as a family unit that just people didn't know that were happening in our relationship for all those years.And it wasn't to, you know, throw my ex under the bus or anything of the sorts.Um, I think it was just more, you know, I think it's good that people know whereother people are at and so that they can better help, you know, if that's ifthat's a thing. Um, some families are good with that and some families aren't. And I think our family was pretty goodwith that. We all try to hold each other to a standard. And I could see that myex's family didn't really know what had happened. And I didn't tell everybody. It was just like, you know, some thingscame out in some conversations for sure. But, um, anyways, that was good just because itkind of opened my eyes to a lot of things that I just was having such a hard time in my cognitive dissonancekeeping track of and making sure that I knew what the truth was. And so, andthen keeping it separate in my head. And the reason why I say that is because my sister-in-law had shared a fewconversations she'd had with my ex-husband, which is her brother, of course. Um, and he was the same usingthe same manipulative tactics and the same pushing mechanisms to get her tonot hold him accountable for what he had done and to try to get him to be honest with her um about things that were said,things that were done. He was very angry that we were hanging out together. It's like, well, we were a family for 24years. Like, if she wants to, you know, still be friends, then, of course, my sister-in-law wanted that, too. And thenwe became better friends because we were talking so much about so many things. We kind of bonded in some ways. And, um,and I'm really thankful for that. Um, but I ended up staying with them for the summer and it was really good. But thenum it kind of all it didn't all crash down,but I kind of went from the frying pan into the fire again and I didn't expect that it would happen. My mother-in-lawhad ovarian cancer for the last couple years and she was really fighting it with a bunch of natural treatments andshe lived just a little ways out of Sandp Point in Seel and uh she went toMexico to get some treatment for hopefully to heal herself of cancer. Um,and it was just too late. And so they got her home from Mexico and of course she's in the area and we I hadn't spokento her in a really long time because her son, the one I divorced, was her favorite child. And soum, obviously she would side with him and there was some narrative being, you know, talked about behind the scenesthat probably wasn't entirely true. Um, so there was that. not to get into liketoo much of that, but she was around and I figured moving up here like I would see her at some point and maybe we couldhave some chats and just kind of like try to reconnect and make sure that we were okay with each other. Um,it was difficult and she was frustrated that I was living with her daughter withFA um which is none of anybody's business, right? But none of the familyknew that I was living there for the time being. Um, andshe ended up dying, but in the course of her ended up dying, she died like two months ago in October. And my ex-husbandended up having to come here and the entire family showed up in San Point. AndI was just put not really put in a position or a situation, but I was there. So, I made the best of it. Iserved my family. I still loved all of them. I still do. I still consider them my family. Um, you know, so there's areally big family, aunts, uncles, cousins, friends, and everybody knows who I am, of course. You know, I wasSean's wife for 24 years. And he Shawn had started dating right afterthe divorce papers were finalized, like immediately. And he ended up bringing his newgirlfriend up here to see his dying mother several times. Um, and that was really hard. I stayed away on those dayscuz I didn't want to see that. I was still very much attached to him in some unholy ways and still kind of in lovewith him too, right? And so, um, it was very difficult to say theleast to serve a family that I felt like I was kicked out of. Um, and then havingto see him and then we had some moments together that were talking about his mom dying cuz my dad died a number of yearsago and he was there for all of that. And so, yeah, the connections were still there between the two of us, but I justI knew I just could not, you know, allow myself tocontinue to try to cultivate anything with him after divorce. And I knew he was dating someone. I wanted to be respectful of him in his newrelationship, even if I thought it was unhealthy. So, um, he accused me of trying to put myclaws back into him, which I did nothing of the sort. I just tried to stay away as best I could. I had moments where I'd have to leave family functions justbecause I couldn't handle it and I didn't want to start crying in front of everybody so I would just excuse myself and go home. But um it was hard justjust put that out there. He's just very angry with me still and I just

Boundaries, “claws back in,” and why she can’t be his friend

can't seem to move on fully with my heart space and I think it's just grief and processing the last 20ome years ofmy life. I have a lot of flashbacks of just previous memories that we shared together, um, good and bad. And so,um, I'm trying to just navigate all of that. And I know this is going to takesome a lot longer for me than it would be for him because he had been with other women so many times while he waswith me. So, he wasn't invested in the relationship like I was and he wasn't as attached to me as I was to him. And soalso the the dynamic of just being trauma bonded to someone after they've done so many things to break your heart,but you just can't seem to let them go. And I remember us talking about this on our last conversation. Um, and sometimesit rings in my mind still, which is why do you think that you can't, youknow, separate yourself from this person? Why are you so afraid to do that? And I think that I'm not afraid todo that anymore. I think it's just the aftermath of everything is, you know, catching up with me. I'm not so much inin a shock phase. to think I'm moving from shock to like through denial, through definitely slowly intoacceptance that I'll probably never see him again and I will probably notI I probably, you know, I'm I don't know if I'll ever get married again just because I don't know if I will everfully heal from what's happened to me in this relationship, the previous relationship. And cuz there's just somany years of it. I think if it had been like a couple years and I, you know, had the courage enough way back then to callit off, then I think I would have been a lot better off than now because so much time has passed and I was really, youknow, connected with that with his family. Um, and it really just feels like now like Ijust don't mean anything to any of them. They're just kind of all like, "Oh, well that's over. Glad we don't have to dealwith the drama of Sean and Vanessa anymore and so we're just going to move on with our lives." And I don't blame people for moving on, butbut Vanessa, that hurts, right? Like that's it hurts a lot. Yeah. You feel just kind of disdiscarded. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Um so it's not just the the griefof the divorce that you're going through, but it's the grief of the change in all of these relationshipsand what I thought I meant to them. Yeah. Right. It's like what you think you mean to people and then you come to find outthat you might not have meant hardly anything to them and it was just I Ifeel like I was just there because I was Sean's wife and not because you know I do thinkRight. Exactly. like I am my own person, but I don't think I ever got to really be my own person because I was kind of under Sean's thumb for allthose years and I wasn't truly who I who I am. And also mostly because I just wasn'teducated about relationships and I didn't know how to show up in the proper ways which also is heartbreaking toobecause I could have had so much more with the people around me andthat's that's devastating in of itself, right? Yeah.Yeah. But yeah, it's really hard like trying to move on from this. And I know it's only been I think it's been a it's beena year, but it hasn't been a year because like I keep wanting to go no contact andI do pretty good for a few weeks and then we have to have a phone call about some sort of financial thing orwhatever. And I try not to be on the phone with him because I don't want to hear his voice cuz I know what it does to me. He seems like he's okay with it,but he doesn't understand what it does to me, you know, and I have to just say, "I can't speak with you on the phone.

No contact, phone calls, and protecting her heart

You can send it to me in an email, you know." Um, so yeah,every couple every like once a month usually we have to end up talking to each other because of just the alimonypayment and he had to switch bank accounts. So we, you know, and I don't mind talking to him over the phone. Andit's just it's hard to not engage with each other because we were in each other's lives for so many years and hejust thinks that everything is going to be okay and he wanted me to be his friend a couple weeks ago. He asked mehe told me he's like I really miss you and I really want us to be friends and I was like I can't be your friend. I'msorry. I can't be your friend. I that's not fair for you to ask me that aftereverything you put me through and everything that you did. I I can't be friends with someone who treats someonelike that and just says that everything's okay after a year and just just move on, you know.Yeah. Good. Good. Vanessa, to have those boundaries. Um that's one of the firststeps to you actually moving forward and healing is not allowing yourself to goback and, you know, be be back in those situations. So, and that's that's reallyhard. That's difficult to do. Yeah. Especially when that person's kindof been like, you know, they created a situation where they become the drug,you know, like because of the hot and cold, you know, the dopamine hits I would get or oxytocin I would receive ifwe were, you know, intimate after some time of not being intimate and then thinking like, oh, he's changed or it'sgoing to be better or he's going to he gets it now and then he would essentially, but it would be like a fiveminute change, right? So, I know we talked about that before andthat's that's why I know I can't I can't go back to that. I can't even be friendswith someone. I don't want him calling me randomly and he's he's with someone now and I don't want to be the ex-wifein the situation, you know, like I don't want to be that. I don't want to be the ex-wife who is a good friend andit wouldn't be fair to me either, you know, like I'm not his good friend. I was his good friend. I was his wife. ifI was his lover for so many years and if you wanted to be friends then maybe you should have thought about what you weredoing before you did it right you know if you wanted to end things amicably then we could have maybe had that but Idon't I don't for me that's not on the table yeah okay I think so so let's uh so justin hearing you talk Vanessa I'm I'm with Brandon here let's just get out what sounds like is the right kind of workthat's happening and the and the the the pros here and then we'll get into maybe your question which is how do I helpmyself still kind of get over the pain of all of this and the longing and the grief that's still there but but what wedo know is is that you're at least aware that there is a grieving process that's taking place now and you're conscious ofthat and going like oh there is some bargaining and some depression and maybe still some anger and once in a while amoment of acceptance um um so we know that that awareness is actually power for us that's a goodthing and then what Brandon said is also another good thing which is you sound like you're better with your personalboundaries and values than even the last time we talked. Mhm. Um so you're strengthening your abilityto kind of know what you what you need and to be able to say, "Hey, I'm not inthe space where I can have that kind of friendship right now." Partly because this grieving process is still likeworking you over, right? Yeah. Yeah. Um, can you in since thedivorce, has there been anything else that has been that you know of has beenhelpful for you in the process that you're in of grieving? Because some of this is time for sure, but has therebeen anything else that you've been doing to to help yourself with this process?Um, I think just talking with a couple close friends about like what I'mexperiencing, what I'm going through has been helpful. Um, I've done some journaling. I do alot of video blogging of myself when I feel like I really need to talk some things out for a while and that seems tobe helpful. But honestly, I think the thing that's helped me the most is just no contact.It's just it's just no contact. Um, andtry to revert my attention or my mind when I havememories come up or, you know, some things like that. Like, if they're good memories, then I honorthose memories, but I try not to linger in them too long because I tell myself like, if you linger here too long, you're just going to feel really sad andyou're going to feel homesick and heartbroken. And we want to try to move through those those parts of ourselvesthat we don't want to get stuck there, right? I don't want to be pining after someone for the next like four or fiveyears that I just know I can't go back to. And he's clearly moving on and I think wasring shopping for his new girlfriend. So yeah, I can't those are some of thethings that have helped. Um honestly, I've been in so much shock andgrief this year. It was so hard that I haven't really gotten tocheck in with any groups or anything up here locally. There's I think there's a grief share group and I wasn't reallysure if I even wanted to do that because I've been grieving for so many years so many things that I've lost in my life that I just didn't want to stay stuck inthat. I just and I don't know if I'm just trying to like, you know, be my own hero here andjust do it on my own, but I'm kind of tired of talking about ittoo, you know, like I Vanessa, what this this might seem from left field, but what what makes you feelalive? Exercise really makes me feel alive. Um,some sorts some kinds of music do. Okay. Um, being around family is is areally big deal for me. And and can can you with those things, canyou actually feel alive? Like even through all this grief, can you feel like, wow, I feel hope, I feel good, Ifeel like um I'm okay in those moments. Yeah. Yeah, I do. Yeah. Um, unfortunately, mybody is is in kind of in like a fight orflight mode. that's been stuck for a lot of years. And so exercise,um, I've got some chronic illness. We talked about that a little bit before when we was on the call, some autoimmunestuff or something going on. So, exercise, um, I do what I can for that,but I have been listening to more like upbeat music or music I had enjoyed previously and that's been reallyhelping. And then again, just having planned time with friends or family has been reallycrucial, too. Okay, good stuff. Yeah. Um, that stuff's really importantand and your daily self-care is really important right now. Mhm. Um, like a real focus on self on onboundaries around the situation. Um, the it's really hard to grieve somethingespecially when it comes to betrayal. Yeah. If you're always going back right into the thing that you're hoping for orpining for, like you say, like So, so your your clear boundaries are very important. And then I'd stack ontop of those boundaries the the self-care, the things that actually help you feel alive. Well,before I do before I do that, I'd put things that help you move energy. So, help you move help you move the the painthrough you. So, okay, that can be a lot of the things you just listed. Um, journaling, talking it out,crying, music, um, music, certain types of music. Um, but like you say, you you don't want toget stuck there just just in like just in the pain of it. You need to go there.You need to acknowledge it. Yeah. And and feel it. It's it's like a it's

Grief as waves: feeling it and moving through it

it's both. And you don't want to avoid it and pretend like it's not there. You want to say,"Oh, that trigger just came up. I really feel like crying right now. Yeah. I'm going to go cry for 20 minutesand then I'm going to get myself up and I'm going to go for a walk. Right. Right. Yeah.To kind of finish the pain cycle kind of like Yeah. releasing it but then allowing your bodyto move through it too and versus just Right. Exa Exactly, Vanessa. That's exactly andand and then that will with grief it's you think about it as waves, right?Yeah. So that will come back. Yeah. And you get you get to do that again.And and but as you do that again and again, what you're doing is you're releasing the energy and the painand you're processing it and the waves should should start to spread out. Okay? And and hopefully you're not stuck injust depression because you're taking the pain, you're acknowledging it, you're feeling it, and then you'removing forward beyond it. Um, and I know I I make this sound easy, like we'retalking about deep, hard pain here. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I've I've been in thisfor so many years now. It's almost been 10 years of grieving for me. Consistentgrieving because I've I really have lost every pretty much everything in my life.Um, like, you know, my dad died in 2016 along with a um a pregnancy that my exand I had. Um, we lost all of our grandparents, friends, our home. I lostmy health. Um, you know, like all of those things. Like that's a lot. It's like a lot of pillarsof anyone's life. And anything that I knew that was that felt normal, I lost. And then just having to move so much cuzI just don't feel comfortable where I end up staying and certain roommate situations and all that. Like just it itreally does look, you know, very chaotic to other people outside of me. And theyI see people watching me and I see people looking at me and they just see them like is she gonna crack? Like no, Ialready cracked. Like I already fell apart, you know? I just Yeah.Yeah, you're right about the grief. I've done I've done some grief work before um youknow after my dad died and you know the baby died and all that. UmVanessa, why I want to ask you this question here. All the things that you've been through, all this grief,is there a reason? I don't know. Is God just like on you? Likewhat's happening? It feels like it sometimes. No, I don't understand.I'm not a terrible person. Um, I haven't made all the best decisions and choices in my life. Excuse me. I have a baby dogand she's really anxious to play with me. Oh, Ro, sit down. She feels your energy.

“Am I cursed?” Wrestling with God and meaning in pain

She can feel your emotions is what's happening. Yeah. And she wants to get me out of it, so she's trying to be helpful.Yeah. Um, excuse me. Um, I don't know. That's a really goodquestion. I I really sometimes I feel I've asked God like, "Am I cursed?Has God has God cursed me in these things? like why do I still have to gothrough so many hard things and it doesn't seem like there'snot that there's no hope. I always think there's hope, but I just been like asking God like pleaselike help me through these things. And I sometimes I can't even ask him for helpbecause I I feel like so many terrible things have happened to me that if I go to him, he's just silent. And that'swhat it feels like right now is just God's just silent. I know he's there, but if he's silentwith me and I don't hear him or sense him, thenI'm not sure what all this is for. But right,and that's not an answer that Tyler and I can give you. I understand. But but the the like thereason I asked the question is pointless pain leads to just stayingstuck in in the in the grief in the depression. It's just like I'm I'mhopeless. Like I'm just being picked on. being just like versusyou've been through all this stuff and I don't know why, Vanessa, but you get to choose whether youbelieve that there's a reason or not. Do you see what I'm saying? Like God'sdoing something with you here. I don't know what. Um, or we can believe God's not and it'sjust like this life sucks and just like you might as well wallow in in it in thepain and that sucks, right? Yeah. Yeah.Life sucks. God cursed me or something else. Or something else. We don't know what,right? Yeah. Yeah.Brandon, to go along with that though, I think that's one of the challenging things with like grief is is I think thepoint you're trying to make is a vital point to make even though it's not fun for anybody to hear in a spot like Vanessa's, is we've done this workenough to know that when people finally start to come to this conclusion of allof this stuff that I've had to go through has some kind of meaning for me. Maybe it develops some kind of purposeor maybe some new understanding or some new clarity or some then all of a suddenthat is part of the that is part of what helps move through the grieving process.It's it's what not only helps you get through the pain, but it actually elevates your life to a place youcouldn't have gone otherwise without it. And um and and that's easier said thandone. And that's why it's so hard is because you kind of have to pass through the confusion, the silence, the loss,the doubt, the anger, not just with the things that have happened to you, but maybe the wrestle with a higher power.Um, but if you'll do that with an openness to the fact that this mightpotentially be doing something for me, eventually we start to land in placeswhere it's like, oh man, I might I might have a corner on the market when itcomes to resilience in this area of life now. And because of that, that allows meto go and take these risks or do this new thing or or be a voice for somebody else or whatever else is going to happenwith that. Um, maybe this will turn maybe this is a the part of a journeywhere who knows where this turns out, but maybe you'll be worshiping an entirely different god a year from now.One that doesn't curse. Um, who knows? That's going to be your wrestle. But but when you find meaningand purpose in it, that's where you're going to find kind of more peace and more acceptance in the long run. Um Ialso want to say some things, Brandon, what you were saying, and I get your thought on this, Brandon, for a secondwith her situation. Um I almost feel like the battle that's being fought hereand you were kind of talking with Vanessa about this is it's got two fronts to it. like there isthe front of needing to create space and opportunity and permission and kindnessand compassion to do the grieving at the same time that there's this and and I would say inside the grievingthere's probably still some shame and trauma work there. Yeah. Um it feels that way. Um and then theother front is I got to get busy creating the life that I was designed for. Um, and I'm kind ofpicturing like our healing journey, Brandon, where I almost picture Vanessa would be benefit from be doing like saysection two, which is all about dealing with shame, trauma, past, pain, and thensection four and five, which is like here's here's what I'm doing to developmyself and have confidence in who I am and know who I am and step into my power and find purpose. And it's is itpossible to work on both sections at the same time? AB well I think so and so and that'swhere I'm seeing you you Vanessa I think this is why Tyler's bringing this up iswe can feel your pain and yet I'm asking you things about like what do you love to do you know what what lights you upand and both you need to descend further into that pain and you need to climb outinto the light like you got to do both at the same time and I know this sounds really difficult but what Tyler's talking about likeTyler I I think absolutely not not onlynot like like it's it's almost in many in some cases needed like if you justdescend into the dark where it gets so dark in there you can't even see the light above. You're going to get buried there.You're stuck. Yeah. Like it's just so consuming. Yeah. I was there earlier this year forsure. Um, when I found out that, you know, my my ex-husband was shopping forengagement rings and was probably going to ask this brand new person he'd never met to marry him only a couple monthsafter meeting her. I definitely spiraled for sure. Um,that was really hard, but I have come to terms with it. Still hurts. Um, butI it's not my life anymore, you know. I try to I really try to accept it andwalk myself through what would this look like in my head and just try to, you know,Vanessa with some bravery. Vanessa, random question for you. How old's that dog?She is six months old. So, look at that. Look when you got her.And yeah. And do you love her? I do love her.She's grown on me. Um she forces me. She's a puppy, right? She's a puppy. Yeah. Okay. Go outside.Um yeah, she's she's pretty amazing though because And it was funny how I got the dog just real quick. God kind ofgave me her. Um she was supposed to be I was supposed to pay for her and I justdidn't have the money to do that. And so she is my sister-in-law's dog'sdaughter. So, um, okay. So, he had a litter of puppies withanother dog, of course. And, you know, I told myself like, I want to get a dogsomeday, and I've been wanting a dog for a couple years, and my ex always told me, "No, you're not going to have timefor a dog." I'm like, "No, I have all kinds of time in the world for a dog." So, anyways, um, here I have with this dog. God gave me the dog for free.Just worked out that I got the dog for free. Didn't have to pay a dime for her. Um, and it was the exact kind of lookingdog I had in like a dream I had about me like in a like a my dream vehicle withthis dog in the front seat next to me and we were driving through the mountains and I was just like the happiest I'd ever been in my life. Andand when I saw her, I was like, "Oh my gosh, she looks exactly like the dog I had in that vision I had." And so here's

The puppy named Rowan and unexpected signs of hope

this dog. And I ended up naming her Rowan. And I literally in my sister-in-law's backyard this lastsummer cuz it was summer. It was nice outside. I slept in a tent for 4 months. Oh. And I was underneath a Rowan tree intheir backyard and we didn't know it was a Rowan tree, but I ended up naming my dog Rowan. And so No way.Yeah. So there was some really kind of cool like spiritual things that were happening around like getting the dog. But my sister-in-law, I was like, Idon't know if I'm ready for a dog. You know, my health this and that and the other thing. I made some excuses and she's like, no, this is going to bereally good for you because it's going to give you some purpose. still give you some something to, you know, a companionship and all the things that adog will bring, just distraction. And so I am so thankful that I have her rightnow in my life. Yeah. A couple things that I'm noticing um just from and the reason I randomlybrought this up as we're talking to you like you're loving on that dog like youyou you're talking about the pit of despair that you've been in and at the same time in the midst of itall you take on loving something that really needs you andand giving your love and time and energy to that. Um, you're also talking aboutlittle and and I don't I don't mean little in the sense of like that these aren't a big deal, but but littleexperiences from God that are like you had a vision of that dog.You slept under a row like all these things. God is is there and we you can believethat God is working against you or that God is working for you. And even thispain, even this divorce, even this relationship, even the feeling of beingdiscarded by his family, we can look at that and say, "This is God working inVanessa's favor to help her understand herself better, know who she is,um move forward, and and like live your purpose and your dreams.Mhm. Um, it sucks that all of the stuff you've been through for these years andand why you had to go through this in order to really start to to to moveforward, I don't know. But um, you're still breathing,you're still going. Um, the pain isn't going to be this intense forever.I hope not. At least, right? No, it's already gotten better. It's just it's just, you know, like theaftermath, you know, when you kind of settle down somewhere and you're able to sit down long enough to, you know, workthrough the phase of like shock and denial and just like, oh my gosh, like what just happened, you know? So, yeah.But think of all that you have to do, Vanessa, in the future.Have you thought of that? Yes. Yeah. I I am, you know, definitelyputting some steps forward into like what that looks like and where I want to be and what I want to be doing with mylife. And um yeah, relationships, you know, like aromantic relationship I don't really have in my future as of right now justbecause it's difficult. But yeah, um it's okay. I can still hurting.Yeah, I have been seeing someone and he's he's really nice andum I don't know where it'll go. I'm not super serious or keen on growing it necessarily, but it is nice to have somecompanionship sometimes and we just go and do fun things together. So, just toget out Tyler, can I ask you a question? Like, you've seen a lot of things through theyears, like a lot. you've worked with a lot of people in a lot of different complex challengingsituations and and and unique trials like you've you've seen things thatpeople go through that you probably never would have thought of, right? Um,if I were to ask you, do you think the universe is working in people's favor orthat God is actually trying to get to people's hearts even through all of the stuff that you've seen? What would yousay? I I would say, and this is like I don't know, I hope this doesn't sound like acopout, but it's like we're all going to believe something, right? And so weshould consider what what fruits the beliefs we have actually bring. And whatI've what I've found is is that it seems that the people likethis is going to sound so stupid, but have you ever have you ever had like afly or a bee get stuck in the window sill and they keep pounding away at the window sill and you're trying to get them out of the window sill and you tryto shoe them away and then they get frustrated or you get some paper and you try to like block it till they can get to the opening in the window or the doorto get them out and then they fight against that paper. They're trying to sting it. They're trying to get away but they're pressing against it. oppressingagainst it, pressing against it. They're fighting it the whole time and all you're trying to do is lead them to freedom in life.And and I sometimes wonder if like there might be a merit to looking at theuniverse or God that way too. that part of what this is all about is actuallygetting me right into the exact bandwidth that I was designed to be inin this universe or in this world or or in the midst of like how I can show upand have a relationship with God or other people. And I don't know if that'strue or not, but I know that that produces better fruits than oh poor me,the world is out to get me. Mhm. Um and so so in believing that what itdoes is it provides hope. It provides possibility. It keeps my agency and mychoice. And and for some reason it adds a measure. This sounds so weird. Even inthe midst of horrible things, it adds a measure of peace. So I don't know if that's what you'reasking or not, Brandon, but that's what my answer is. Yeah. You you want a great example of this and I brought this up before andit's just the uh Do you listen to podcasts, Vanessa?Yeah. There's a there's one called The Letter. Um and I brought this up before, butit's a great example of a family in a woman who went through so much that made no senseabout God just it seemed like dumping on her, right? and she talks about her wholeprocess of grief. Like you you can hear it through the whole pro like podcast ofwhat she went through and the peace that she found. And I I want to I want to share the comment that um actually Iknow this guy and I know him well and he's he's an awesome guy and he's been through a lot. And it says,"Thank you for sharing. I I relate to this so much. the pain and grief sucks, but when you come out on the other sideand feel the light in you and embrace the authentic you, it's it's a hard journey, but worth it. Um, so it's Idon't know if we're giving you like answers, Vanessa. I think in a lot of ways you already know the answers to tothis. Um, I I feel like you just need more of a reminder of stay the course.Um, you're strong enough to to get through this pain. um maintain thoseboundaries. Um rely on good healthy support anddon't forget who you are. You're that loving soul who cares about that dog, right? Like that's who you really are.Um don't don't don't forget that through this pain and then find find the light,find the good, find the things that light you up and start to focus there as much as possible. And umyeah, I really appreciate you coming on and being vulnerable and and sharing with us your pain. Like that's a giftfor you to share that with us. Um Vanessa, can you tell me just right nowwhat's going through you emotionally? I mean, people can't see your face. They're mostly just listening, but whatwhat are you feeling right now? Um I think just a lot of emotion forsure. And I think the emotions I'm experiencing just feelingsome reprieve just knowing that, you know, likenot on some grief island by myself. A lot of other people have gone through a lot of the same things and even worsethings than I have. Um, so just some gratefulness for the two of you.

Reprieve, not being alone, and permission to feel your emotions

Yeah. Taking some time. I think I think it's just like socomforting to be able to talk with people who understand and that they'renot going to tell you which a lot of my friends and family have which is oh you'll get through it you'll get throughit but they're not they don't they don't have the same knowledge you know they don't have the same expertise and sinceyou know they've gone through hard things too I think a lot of people just shove their emotions down and so I think that people sometimes view me as beingtoo sensitive or not strong enough, which is not true. Imean, I'm a sensitive person, but I also know that I feel my emotions. And that's I think part of the my journey has beenallow myself to feel it, but don't stay there, you Yeah. Um, so yeah, justthose emotions are, you know, our emotions are real, but we I don't want to just be like some and I'm not like anemotional wreck all the time anymore like I was. You know, I don't spin out, you know, I've I know that, you know,our lives are going in different directions and that's what my ex-husband wanted. And so I have to respect what hewanted even if that's not what I wanted. And honestly, if one person wants to go, then the Bible tells us that you shouldlet them go because if that keeps the peace for them and they're happier, even if they're not in God or not, then ultimately it's formy good, too, you know. Right. Right. Yeah. I appreciate you sharing those feelings, Vanessa. I Inoticed your body language even shift a little bit more when Brandon read that comment. And I just want to illustratehow cool it is that a total stranger could step into that space of empathy with you for just a split second andsay, "Hey, I I felt some of that same grief, too, and it sucks." And your soul could instantly receive that and belike, "Ah, I'm not alone." And here you are in the midst of a bad place saying that for a moment you feel reprieve, you feelpeace, you feel understood, you feel not alone. Um, I I sometimes think that itsounds so weird, you wouldn't be able to experience all of that goodness in this moment you just felt without having putyourself out there while going through these things. And right, um, it's kind of a it's kind of a coolthing that we have someone who is willing to put a comment out there and share it with you and it meant that toyou, too. Um, I will say one last thing. I know we're out of time, but I will say one thingthat was a little bit more of a logistical thing to go along with what we talked about today that where Brandon's going with you is giveyourself space to do the grieving. Yes. And do your blogging, do your journaling, do your music, maybeconsider finding a group or something. Not to stay stuck there, but to allow that be your space to do that processingwhile also then doing something like the things that light you up. And one onething that I would suggest and it's it's it's harder to do but it would be stillworth considering is to be doing the kind of work like the gratitude work that you just did with Brandon and I bysaying thank you. Um and also core values work likewho is Vanessa? What are her her core valueswhen everything else is stripped away? what are going to be the most important values that she will die on?And if you get really clear with those values, then that's going to start moving you forward in the way that you look at your life with, well, then howwould I go and shine those values into the lives of other people or into this world that I live in, right? So, that would be maybe one one tangiblething that you could be working on. So, right. Okay, great. Thank you, Vanessa. Thank you for coming on.Appreciate you being vulnerable. We'd love to hear from you again. you're welcome to come on anytime. And umyou guys, if this was helpful, uh please uh leave a a review, mention Vanessa,thank her. And until next time, keep on keeping on. Thanks.