Is It Okay To Have a Relationship With My Ex In-Laws, Even If My Ex Hates It?

2026 is going to be an awesome year. We got some pretty cool stuff coming up. First off, we got Foundations ofRecovery. This is our flagship program. We're starting it in January. This is for anyone, man, woman, or couple whowants to come and reclaim their heart from shame, trauma, and betrayal. We start off with an education on all sortsof principles. Give you the common language. We feed you from a fire hose in terms of all things recovery. It issuch a great start to recovery. And we get to the roots of things, Tyler. This isn't like any other program. Like, thisis our healing journey in process. And Foundations is where we begin. If youlook at the value that you're getting there to kick off a good recovery with all of the right education, all of theright language, and a team to get you started while also being directed by Brandon and myself through the wholeprocess. What a deal. So, we if you're interested, if you're struggling, if you've been wanting to do something fora long time, jump into this. This only comes around every so often and we would love to have you there. Click the linkin the description to sign up for it. And to make it even sweeter, we're also including a raffle for a free pass tothe Radiant Dawn retreat. Anyone who signs up for foundations will be added to the raffle for that free radiant dawnpass. If you're a man and you sign up for foundations, your name still gets entered and you can give that pass awayif you win it to any woman that you want to. So, what you're saying, Tyler, is if you sign up and participate infoundations, you could possibly go to Radiant Dawn for free. That's exactly what I'm saying, which iscrazy because Foundations by itself is already an insane value. Man, I sound so salesy,but it actually is awesome. So, come like come to Foundations. And even if you don't come to Foundations, sign upfor Radiant Dawn. I It's beyond therapy, the best healing experiences that you can have. Click the link below and comejoin us. Is it okay for me to have a relationship with my ex-in-laws even if my ex hatesit? What's up you guys? Welcome to theTherapy Brothers podcast. I'm Brandon. I'm Tyler. We're brothers. We're therapists. We're not afraid ofyour questions. So bring it. [Music]Good one, Tyler. I like it. But before we dive into that question,uh, let me read a review. So, this review has a lot in it. Um, but I loveit. So, it says, "It's okay to be attracted to other people. Way to slap shame in the face. I really admire yourcourage in tackling a taboo fact of life head on. I so appreciate the personalexamples as well. It makes it easy to apply to real life situations. I lovehow you called all of us out. Of course, there is more than one person we will beattracted to in this world or or we wouldn't be human. People that are offended by this concept must also beoffended by honesty and communication. It's not the thought that is bad. We allhave bad thoughts, words, actions come into our heads and no one cancontrol that. The judgment only comes when we use our agency to either give it the boot or to let it take up residence.Thanks you guys for all you're teaching us. You're helping us put to shame faulty cultural narratives.There's a lot in that. That one obviously comes from that episode we did on whether or not it's okay to be attracted to people other than yourspouse. No, really. Yeah. But um I'm glad we're getting some feedback on it, you know, and it soundslike just the feedback that I've gotten from other people is that it's caused a lot of discussion and a lot of people tothink about things. So that's kind of what we want to do. Yeah. So anyways, Tyler, we talk about a lot ofserious topics. Before we get to the serious stuff, uh we have a lot of childhood uh memories anda lot a lot of experiences we've had together. And maybe we just think they're interesting and funny, but um wewanted to share one. And what I This is so random. You woke up in the morning. This is random. This is so random.It probably has nothing to do with our episode, but but I woke up this morning. I can relate it to the episode. I promise you.Okay. We try to figure out how to work this one in then. All right. Because I don't know. I woke up and it's like this can't be this this can't be inspirationbecause there's no way to fit it in. But um but Iit's like but I I woke up this morning and I was like kind of in that state of like wakefulness but still like asleepbut you know you start yeah you're you're in your theta mind when you're you're having inspiration. I'm having I'm having my inspiration andthe inspiration was these memories from childhood probably because I knew I was gonna be filming with you today um orrecording with you today. But um remember our neighbor Adam Bamfordgrowing up. How could I forget Bance? I love that guy. One of my favorite guys. We love that. We love the Bamfords. AdamAdam Bamford and his little brother Brett. And Brett had Down syndrome and he referred to himself as MacGyver. Remember,man, I love I love MacGyver. We love MacGyver. We'll have to tell some stories about MacGyver some other time. But I woke up with I woke up withthe the memory of being out in the front yard. And in our front yard, we kind of had these streets with big trees growingin the in the very front parking strips there. And then cars would drive by. Not very many. It was a pretty low-keystreet. I remember one day being out running the neighborhood like we used to do. And I w we walked by and Adam Bamfordwas hiding behind a tree. There was a cop. Well, the cop showed up later.So, so Adam, Adam Bamford was hiding behind a tree and a car drove by andAdam Bamford had a pack the window was he had a package of hot dogs and hethrew a hot dog and went right through the car window and like hit the person driving the carand so they so that is good aim. That's really good.while the car is driving down the street. He throws a hot dog, hits theguy. Oh man.So, so yeah. So, so anyway, then the cops show up and all because Adam threwa hot dog. The cop got like, "Hey, some kid threw hot."Oh, man. So, yeah. So anyway, I don't know how that relates to our episode today, but that's what was in myI told you. Don't worry about it, Tyler. We will work it in. So think about how to use the metaphor of a hot dog in a car windowand vamps hide behind a tree. Yeah. Yeah. Well, good good memories.That is a good memory, man. It's good. It's good to have those memories. Yeah. Um, and it's good, you know, werelate on so many things, uh, from our work, um, just what we do day in and day out. There's a real sense of empathy anda real bond, um, because we we feel each other's pain. But, um, the other thingthat really bonds us together, Tyler, is just stories like that.We we we, you know, we we we were known in in our neighborhood as the crazyfamily. um that you know it was a little scary I think to go over to our house orwhatever, but also the family that people wanted to hang out with and and connect to. So, um yeah, we knew a lotof people and Bamps was one of them. Yeah, he he could come to our front neighborhood, our front yard, and throwa hot dog through a window and almost get away with it. Okay. Okay. on to the the seriousquestion which is actually a very good question a very difficult um question.So yeah hopefully we can give some insight to it. Yeah this will be an interesting discussion Brandon. This is I'm going toread it to you. Okay so we get the full context. It says is it okay to maintain a relationship with your ex-in-lawsafter your marriage ends even if it upsets your ex? My husband and I were recently married and are in the midst ofworking through the challenges that come from blending our families. On my husband's side, his ex-wife hascompletely severed all ties with her family and does not want the kids does not want the kids to see her family.Throughout the divorce, my husband maintained his relationships with his in-laws and does his best to make surethe kids can stay connected to their grandparents, aunts, uncles, and cousins by inviting them over on special occasions or allowing their grandparentsto visit them on our time. Being widowed myself, I understand the importance ofkeeping a relationship with my late in-laws because I know my children will only be able to maintain thoserelationships through me. So both my husband and I value the importance of extended family and make the extraeffort because we want our kids to know that they can count on their family to always be there for them. However, thishas caused a lot of contention for his kids and their mom because she becomes upset with them for seeing her familyand she hates that my husband still keeps contact with them. It's gotten to the point where her family has begun toquestion if they should let go of their relationships with the kids for fear that it's doing more harm than good.They hate that they're the reason for the kids' trouble. They also worry it's only driving her farther away from everreconnecting with them. My husband and I are saddened by this and aren't sure how to move forward. Do we continue tomaintain these relationships for the kids because they love and miss the in-laws, or are we doing more harm thangood by putting the kids in these contentious situations with their mom? Wow.Yeah. Excellent question. Yeah, there's a lot to this question. Yeah. and she actually in in some waysanswers the question I in the description of what's happening. I Ithink um the very last statement there um what what did you say the lastsentence there it says um do we continue to maintain these relationships for the kids because they love and miss the in-laws or are wedoing more harm than good by putting the kids in these contentious situations with their mom? Um,so I one thing that I I'd like to say is who is putting the kids in the contentious situation,right? Exactly. Um, that's a good question because in some ways this is this is a really wellthoughtout questionand you can tell behind the question that the intentions are actually really pure here.Absolutely. They want the kids to be able to have full access to as much of their familyas possible. And Right. And who's actually causing the contention, right? No. I want to ask you, Tyler, isthat their right? Is that their right to to say, "Hey, kids, we want you to haverelationships with your family. We we want to be able to connect with them." Or is it the right of the ex to say,"Boundary, don't do that. I don't want you guys around. Goodbye." It's it's the right of each individualperson to make the decision that feels right for them. Yes. I I agree.So, so if I like like for instance, I'm I'm I'm going to use like an example maybe from my own life. It's it's likekind of a running joke that if I ended up with a divorce that I'd probably get my wife's family in the divorce becausethey like love me. You know, they her uncles her uncle's like we're we're goodfriends and we want to hang out and we have a good time together and and I would you know I wouldn't see it as aproblem if I wanted to maintain a relationship with her uncles even if we were divorced. Well, and and I thinkthat's, you know, I I think one of the problems is is is when you think of divorce, you think of winning, you thinkof losing, you think of, you know, who's going to get what and why. And the fact of the matter is that that's that's nothow it actually works. Um, when you divorce, um, if somebody has a relationship withsomebody, that's their relationship with them, and you don't own that. you don'tyou know and so I just think that you really got to askyourself why are you doing what you're doing if you really are are trying toconnect to those family members and you're doing it from a place of lovethen let the ex try to sort out theirstuff and deal with that and you're not being a jerk by trying to help your kidshave relationships with family. Yeah. Well, and there's other people involved here, too. It's not just theex, but it sounds like the in-laws are also tough position for them. They're feeling a bit of a squeeze, too,because they've got their child that they're almost sounds like they're disconnected from. They want to repairthat relationship. At the same time, they also want a relationship with the grandkids. And they're going to have to be the onesthat make their own decision on how much they see the children, you know, how much they how much they see the childrenor whether or not they set the boundaries to say, "Hey, look, we're going to temper this for a while. We're going to pursue our relationship withour daughter." That's on the in-laws to decide that as much as anybody else. Youknow, every every person, what you're saying, Brandon, is every person in the equation needs to take ownership fortheir own reasons and then act accordingly. Yes. Instead of trying to manage everybodyelse. Like what I hear in this is if they were to go and say, "Well, we're going to make sure we protect the ex bynot taking the kids to the grandparents." It's like what we've just done is we've enabled the ex to continue to throw a fit and not deal with her ownissues. And I think I think that word enabling actually is really important inthis situation. So, um, you know, from from the, you know, the the ex. So, soif if you're the one with with the kids, um, don't enable your ex. Don't enableyour ex by by just shying away and avoiding and not not bringing them over.But also the the parents, the in-laws, don't enable your child. Um, and and Iknow like that that can be brutal uh because they'll do things like say, "Well, you're choosing them over me." umyou know and and really push away. But if if you're the if you're the in-lawsand you feel like I I we like that relationship that we have with the ex umyou know it it's a good healthy thing for the kids as well then then continuethe the relationship. Now I do think the problem is if if Tyler ifwe look at this integrity is really important. The problem is is when manipulationand um you know game playing a andtrying to get back at each other. If those things start to come into play then it becomes really problematic.like, "Look, I want to bring the kids over to your parents house because I know you hate it and it's a way for meto dig in the knife to show you how horrible you were in our marriage." Um, you know, like stuff like that. That'sgoing to cause problems. Well, and and that that ultimately is going to be harmful to the children too because thenthe children are intentionally being put in the place of being this pawn, you know, ofand and that and that scenario actually happens in divorce all the time withdifferent type of topics in divorce and it's a horrible position for the kids to be in over and over and over again.And good parents who get divorced are ones that can say, "Look, I'm not going to use you, child, as a means to try tovalidate my pain and my frustration from the relationship and the marriage. I'm actually going to care about you and andwhat uh what is best for you." Right. Right. Yeah. You're making me think of a country song by Ray Lynn called The LoveTriangle. Have you heard that song before? Uh I think I have actually. It's yeah, it's it's actually a pretty it'll it'llkind of rip your heart out if you are connected to any type of a divorce situation because you really kind of getthe sense through the music of what the kids often feel. And if parents arebeing so narcissistic in the sense that and and I mean that I hesitate to usethe word narcissistic because that gets labeled too much and like thrown out of proportion, but if they're if they're ifthey're putting their needs ahead of their children by using their children, that is that's really unhealthy, right?But that's but that's actually not what's happening in this question, you know? Well, but but you know what, Tyler?Let's let's go there. So like the the way she asked this question sounds like they're pretty healthy. Sounds likethey're seeing it well. They're trying to navigate it. And so it's easy for us to side with herthe you know because she wrote the question that way. But let's just pretend for a minute. Okay. And let let's say that um you knowI'm the I'm the ex and and so my ex keeps bringing our our kids over to ourparents' house and hanging out and and I know thatand I really feel like my ex is manipulative um and unhealthy and unhealthy to bearound our parents and I can't control them but should I justsmile and be happy that yeah, they're showing up all the time and hanging out with mom and dad. No. Yeah, you're right. So, let's if wewere to flip this on the side, let's flip it over. So, let's say let's say we are in the position of the ex like you just said,and and it's actually true that I've been in a relationship with my parents long enough to know that I it's reallykind of unsafe for my kids to be there. Yeah. Like, but now my ex is taking him overto my parents' place. What do I do about it? Well, what what can I do about it? I don't have any legal recourse. I can'treally do anything legally. Well, it depends on your divorce decree, right? So, you you could have some, but probably not.Likely likely there's no legal recourse. So, then what what can I do? Can I control whether or not my ex is stillgoing to do that without legal recourse? Not really. Well, I I think I I could look at it acouple of different ways. One, I could say, you know, what a jerk. Like, here they are doing their thing. they'remanipulative, you know, acting like they're so wonderful to our parents and building rapport with them and blah blahblah. And I could be angry and my heart could be at war and um I, you know, itcould lead to me being revengeful and all those things, right? That's one option. That's an option.Yeah. I could fight fire with fire and and that'll be really terrible on the children.Yeah. And on mom and dad actually, you know, all the people that are kind of caught in the crosshairs of it, right?Um, the other thing I could I could look at it this way. You know, I it might behard for me to have my kids over there at, you know, at the ex's alone andshe's bringing them to mom and dad's house. Like, at least they're getting exposure to some really good people atmom and dad's house. And I'm grateful that they're there instead of somewhere else. And so, m I maybe she has motivesthat aren't the best. Maybe she's playing games or whatever, but I canfind a way to try to accept that that's what she's doing. Right. Well, I mean, the only the onlyreason for moving into acceptance is to realize that maybe you need to try to figure out how to feel better about thesituation that you have no control over. Yes. Um, if if I had someone taking mykids to my parents and I was at odds with my own parents and I had a problem with that, I could also voice that. It'sokay to voice that in a second. But if you voice it and you're a divorced spouse, then what are you goingto be made out to be? Yeah. I mean, there's a chance to be made out villain, but but what I'm getting at is is that if I don't likeit, I can still be honest about it, and I could still I could still say to my ex, whatever, say, "Hey, just so youknow, these are the reasons why I don't like you going over to mom and dad's place. Um,I can't control that that's going to happen, but it's okay for me to say that I don't like it." I think a good option is alwayscommunication. Yeah. Um, but I think with with divorce and with exes, whenyou communicate, you better check your agendas and your expectations at the door because it very well could getthrown back in your face. So, voice it, speak it up, and and uh it might beheard, it might, you know, or or it may not be depending on where what the state of that relationship is.Right. Right. So yeah, there's another there's another part to this question that I'm I'm justkind of thinking about as well. Uh if we go back to the original question, I think I think we've established thatevery person should make the call that they feel is the right call when their heart's at peace in how they shouldhandle each relationship. Okay. Okay. Interpret that. So basically the people the woman asking the questionher and her new husband if it feels right to them to want to pursue a relationship for their with theex-in-laws for the sake of their kids to have a relationship with their grandparent they should do that because that's right for them. If you feel atpeace with that, if you feel at peace with that, if the if the ex who's not happy about it doesn't like it, they can not like itand they can manage their relationship with their ex and their own parents andlet that be their work. And the grandparents should make the decisions that they need to make based off of thefactors that are in play that feel right for them in the context of whether or not they should have a relationship withtheir grandkids. And everybody should allow the other party to make their own decisions.Well, and and even the grandparents, maybe grandpa's different than grandma, you know. So, so e that that same thingapplies, right, with with every individual. Um and I think that's what one of thehard things is is when you do divorce, um your relationship does not end. Infact, you're very much in a relationship still with that person if you have kids. Um, and and a good healthy relationship,whether you're married or whether you're in a divorced relationship, has to do with interdependency where where youvalue the the the person, you value the individual. Andso, you know, when when there there's conflict and things collide, can youstill value that person, empathize with them, have compassion for why they feelthe way they feel, but still show up as an individual yourself and be honest andopen about the ways that you feel. And if you can do that, then you can work through things. If you can't do that,then it just turns into coldness, division, and divisiveness. And sometimes, this is one of the hardthings in life. Your heart can be at peace. You can do all the right things and you can still end up in that placebecause it only takes one person to to to take it there. Sure. Right. Exactly. Um and so, so there's only so muchcontrol that you do have, right? But the that but that's the point is is that I have to do my work to keepmy heart at peace as much as possible for the sake of the kids as much as anything else. So that as much aspossible the kids are surrounded by hearts at peace even if certain parties aren't there yet. Yes.And um and and that leads me to this other point that that says that I'm thinking this these person asking thesequestions they do have to factor in a costbenefit analysis. Yeah. I mean, part of it is part of it is saying, okay, howmuch is it worth it to us to have a relationship with the grandkids, even if it costs us some of this tension and isthe tension too much that maybe it's worth giving that up? And every everyperson in that situation is going to probably weight those things differently. But talk about a rock and a hard place. That's a rock and a hard spot becauseyou know, in a sense, you know that this the ex is still got what sounds like a heart at war. We're going to be puttingour kids in a situation where they'll go and they'll get the benefits. The cost benefit here is they get the benefit ofknowing their grandparents and and think about how mature this is actually that the ex is still wanting their kids tohave a relationship with the in-laws that aren't their own parents. But but let's take it a step further. Not just the ex wants that, but thespouse of the ex the spouse of the ex is good with that. It wants that for the children. That'sthat's why we we can feel and know that that this this question is coming from a real good place where the the person hasa good heart. Yeah. Right. Right. Well, and yeah, but in essence, what they're saying is we want to give our kids multiple sets ofgrandparents instead of just the two original ones. Let the love flow. Let the kids have all the love in the world they can get. And um and so butnow now now that's the question is how much of that benefit is going to beworth it before the pain the kids are going to experience because we kind of know that the reactions of the ex aregoing to be maybe coercive and mean and frustrated with the kids and but that sucks Tyler because then okayif you do this this costbenefit analysis then you say okay like we won't have that relationship and you don't do itbecause you're you're backing down to the X, but you're doing it because you do believe it's best for the kids. Insome ways, you are enabling the X. Now, that's possible, right? Which sucks at that point.That's that's where you have to come to that conclusion on your own to say it's in our best interest. It's in the kids'best interest to do this even though we don't want to instead of doing it because we're like, I'm just afraid of what's going to happen.Yeah. If I'm in their shoes, I'm probably just personalitywise, I'm probably more inclined to say, I'm gonnago pursue some relationships for my grand for my kids, and they're going to have some rocky situations with their mom or their dad or whoever this is, anduh and we'll manage that, and we'll keep the conversations open with our kids, and we'll we'll kind of help teach themas we go because it's worth it for us to have our kids know their grandparents. Lahan, this is a this is a complexinterpersonal situation that we're talking about. It's about as complex as it gets, right, Tyler?Um, but Lahan talks about, you know, the dilemma that we all have in our relationships between umpreserving the relationship, preserving our self-respect, and getting our objectives met. And when divorcehappens, then there's a shift in priority. Um, the relationship isn't themost important thing anymore. Uh, the objective is more important than the relationship. So when they when theylook at this situation, they say, "Our objective of our kids having love and connection with their grandparents,that's that's the most important thing here." So we're going to fight for that. We want that. But when the relationshipcomes in and and there's friction and and they're kicking and screaming and saying, "Hey, I'm angry at you. I don'tlike you. Why are you doing this to me? How can you do this?" You got to ask yourself, um, how do how do you navigateboth when there's when there's a conflict between those things? And andthere's there's some real skills that you can practice to to learn how to ampthings up to get the objective met or amp things down to to nurture thatrelationship, right? And and because this is a complexsituation, um the skills that you use will be different in in probably any differentscenario or situation with the ex. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Could I outline a couple of those skills that can kind of balanceeach other out? Yeah, sure. For our listeners here, this comes from the DBT that you're talking about from MarshallLanahan and those objectives. So, if my primary objective is my self-respect, which isoften the case after a divorce because there's been wounds and harm. Um, if ifI need if we need to maintain self-respect and and also try to meet our objective, then you're going to use the FAST skill. And both of these areacronyms. And the fast skill is about self-respect and objective. And it's tonumber one F is be fair to yourself and others. Meaning you need to ask yourself if you're being fair to yourself, toyour children, to all parties. And if the answer is yes, then you follow through on those things. The A is toapologize less. And I know this sounds backwards because apologies are really good, powerful things, but this is to preserve yourself-respect. So if this is what you're working on, Yeah. And apologizing less means takingaccountability for what's yours but not taking accountability for what's not yours, right?Um leaving leaving accountability in the court of every person who needs to ownthings. S is to stick to your values. Meaning that you're going to not get sucked into drama and you're not goingto do the Jerry Springer show all the time and you're you know you're gonna Jerry was Steve the bouncer and JerrySpringer. I don't know. Never watched it. Oh god. But Brandon and I, you sidetrackreal quick. Brandon and I used to own a lawn care business and we were so lazy. We were we were so lazy that we onlywanted to work like three days a week. So we got all of our lawns done and every day we do our lawns. We try to getdone in time to get home and watch Jerry Springer on daytime television.Okay. On with it. Anyway, so S is stick to your values.The T of the fast skill is to be truthful. Don't don't make excuses.Don't pretend. Just be truthful about what your intentions are and and don'tlike sugarcoat things. Now, it doesn't mean be a jerk, but be honest about things, right? So, that's the fastskill. If I'm maintaining self-respect and trying to meet my objectives, I'm doing the fast skill. And I'm going tobe balancing that with the give skill. And the give skill is designed tomaintain relationships and to foster connection and closeness in relationships. And the give skill, the Gis to be gentle with your relationship. Meaning, you're not going to be in drama all the time. You're going to softenyour startup when you talk to people. You're going to go into it with principles in mind instead of instead ofpersonal things. The I is to be interested in the other person's point of view and tosincerely try to listen. Seek first to understand and then to be understood. And then the V is to validate thosefeelings. Even if you don't agree with everything, find the things that you can validate and validate that person'sfeelings. So, your ex might have some valid points and you might be able to validate them even if you're choosing to take the kids anyway. Um, and then the Eis to maintain an easy manner, meaning your body language stays calm, your face muscles stay calm, your breathing, youkeep a low tone of voice, and you keep an open posture when you're talking to people. And and I think the challenge isis that when you're trying to balance both of those objectives, you kind of need a heavy dose of both skills. Andit's hard to balance those two things. But finding that middle ground is really is really where you're going to findlike the most effective response. Yeah. And it and it and it depends on the situation, right? So depending onwhat's coming up with the X in those moments, you might lean toward give or you might lean toward fast. and and asyou learn how to kind of navigate that, you'll be really effective in in dealingwith this situation. This situation isn't going to go away. So, you learn how to manage it through using thoseskills. And um but I I thinkthis question was great, Tyler, because it's flushing out those type of things and and and the give skill, the fastskill. There's another skill called dear man. We won't get into specific another day.That's on that's when your objective is at the top. Yeah. When the objective is the main priority, but but the these skills, it'sit's helpful to learn them so that you can work with any situation. They applyto your marriage. They they they can apply at work. They can apply in a lot of situations. So, um, but but I wouldsay, um, everything that we've talked about with this question, we don't have adefinitive answer. There's no clear-cut answer here. Um, but if if I can giveany feedback from from the way you wrote the question, it sounds like your heart's in the right place. And becauseyour heart is in the right place, then you'll do the right thing. And just stayin tune and in touch to that. operate from a place of of love, not fear. Um,try to try to love the ex and and understand where they're at, but also love yourself and be honest and anddirect and and open about about your truths as well. And if you do those things, then things will get better,right? Awesome, Brandon. I uh I think this is a good question. I I think I figured out how to include Adam Bford in this story.Oh, yeah. Yeah. tie it all together with the hot dog here. So, if we're talking give and fast, AdamBford was practicing a kind of a counterfeit version of the give skill and giving the hot dog. And the driverwas practicing the fast skill in calling the police.He maintained his selfresect. Maintaining selfrespect. I don't think I would call the police if I got hit in the in the face with a hotdog. I don't know. I probably Yeah. So,that's a stretch. That was a big that was a big stretch. Probably didn't work. So, all right. Anyway, a good questiontoday. Hopefully, there's some foods for thought there. Um, food for thought. Yeah, good one.All right, you guys have a good day. See you guys. [Applause][Music] [Applause] [Music]