What Am I Missing About Healthy Boundaries?

2026 is going to be an awesome year. We got some pretty cool stuff coming up. First off, we got Foundations ofRecovery. This is our flagship program. We're starting it in January. This is for anyone, man, woman, or couple whowants to come and reclaim their heart from shame, trauma, and betrayal. We start off with an education on all sortsof principles. Give you the common language. We feed you from a fire hose in terms of all things recovery. It issuch a great start to recovery. And we get to the roots of things, Tyler. This isn't like any other program. Like, thisis our healing journey in process. And Foundations is where we begin. If youlook at the value that you're getting there to kick off a good recovery with all of the right education, all of theright language, and a team to get you started while also being directed by Brandon and myself through the wholeprocess, what a deal. So, we if you're interested, if you're struggling, if you've been wanting to do something fora long time, jump into this. This only comes around every so often and we would love to have you there. Click the linkin the description to sign up for it. And to make it even sweeter, we're also including a raffle for a free pass tothe Radiant Dawn retreat. Anyone who signs up for foundations will be added to the raffle for that free radiant dawnpass. If you're a man and you sign up for foundations, your name still gets entered and you can give that pass awayif you win it to any woman that you want to. So, what you're saying, Tyler, is if you sign up and participate infoundations, you could possibly go to Radiant Dawn for free. That's exactly what I'm saying, which iscrazy because Foundations by itself is already an insane value. Man, I sound so salesy,but it actually is awesome. So, come like come to Foundations. And even if you don't come to Foundations, sign upfor Radiant Dawn. I It's beyond therapy. The best healing experiences that you can have. Click the link below and comejoin us. What am I missing about healthy boundaries?[Music]Welcome to the Real Talk Recovery podcast with the Therapy Brothers. We're brothers, we're therapists, and we knowrecovery. Bring your stories, your questions, your successes with real recovery.[Music] [Applause][Music]What am I missing about healthy boundaries?Awesome question, Brandon. This is maybe one of the most talked about subjects we get in our line of work, and it'll be agood conversation today with a some pretty good backdrop. Um, before we do that, I'm just going to read our reviewfor the week. We've reading a few reviews and these have been really good and we appreciate them. So, this onesays, "Thank you for the help. This podcast is so helpful in hearing topics about recovery, trauma, betrayal,triggers, and many things that I have had questions about. It's so helpful to hear the perspective of both Tyler andBrandon and those who join them. I appreciate the help this podcast is giving me as I go through the process ofmy own recovery. Thank you for sharing this precious knowledge and guidance to supplement the work that I'm striving todo. Thank you. Thank you for the review. I'm glad to be helpful. Glad that you'redoing the work. The work is worth doing. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much for those kind words.So, all right. Um Tyler, you had a big weekend. Your daughter is off.First one has left the nest. Yeah. So, it's one of those kind of like uh really challenging things because onone hand you get these weird mix of emotions where on one hand I'm so excited for her and the opportunities. She's my oldest daughter getting readyto go to college and we finally dropped her off this weekend. And and then on the way home after we finally droppedher off, my wife and I were just alone in the car and sitting side by side and we both looked over at each other andall we could see was our own tears and tears in the other person's eyes like just all the memory all the memories ofthe little girl that you raised and the chap the chapter of life that that was and just just the challenges that youknow you faced together with her and and the work you've done raising her and it's just one of those kind of snapshot moments but it's it's a good time. It'sa good time of life and it's definitely been some change around our house. Yeah, that's awesome. I think someparents are relieved and just like good good riddens like you and you and Vi are just like sobbinglike Yeah. You know, I put on a I put on a really good game and I was like staying on the positiveside, trying to be mindful, soak up the moment. This is the stage of life we're in. These are good opportunities. Look how great this is. But I finally the dambroke last night finally and it it all came filtering out which is totally fine too.It's g it's grief. Just allow yourself to feel it. You know through you go through different stages of it. Sothere's definitely some stages going on. You step into the pain feel it.Yeah man. But but that's exciting for her and um and just knowing her she's going tothrive and do awesome and it'll be it'll be good for her to get away from home. I think so. It'll be really It's It's anexciting time. Yeah. So, well, should we get into the topic? Yeah, let's let's get into the topic alittle bit. Brandon, you were kind of telling me off air a little bit just some questions that have come through your practice this week and maybe maybethat's where we should start. Yeah. Well, I if there's one thing that I get the most questions about, it'sit's how do I have healthy boundaries and and what are healthy boundaries? Andum and and there's a reason for that because when you're in a relationship where there's addiction and there'smanipulation and there's some gaslighting and all this stuff going on, um it gets really confusing and reallydifficult to know how to show up as a really empowered, authentic individualwho has boundaries, who who knows where you you stop and the other person begins. And um and if I can give just alittle background, Tyler, I sure when I first the very first started getting trained in treating um actuallyI was treating codependency and sex addiction at that time. Um I got trained um by a therapist whowould in in many ways do the worst things with couples. Um she would sitthem down at the beginning. So, what was happening was couples that couples thathad never gone to treatment, um, he'd get busted looking at porn or or hecheated on her or something. And I say he because 99% of the time that was thecase. And they would come into treatment and that well, they would go to a bishopor a church leader first and then the church leader would send them to a therapist. And they'd end up with thistherapist that I was getting trained by. And she would validate the pain of thepartner really really well. And that was really important because in that momentthat partner needed to know that her pain that her having pain was okay.Yes. And that she wasn't crazy. And that she wasn't crazy. And Yes. And so the partner it was just like itwas like oxygen to them of like oh like I'm not crazy. I'm not alone. There ishelp. And so she would in a very powerful way validate the partner whichis important. Um but then after that validation of the partner, she wouldthen really kind of um try to almost emasculate and disempowerthe the the betrayer. So the guy who and and and what she would do is things likeum sit them down in a couple session and have a list of all the ways in which thewife is now going to tell him what he has to do in order to be a man inrecovery. And I'm talking about things like my boundary is you have to eatbreakfast every day. You have to exercise for 30 minutes. You have to check in with me every day. And in thosecheck-ins, you have to tell me all your loss triggers. Um, every trigger that you have. And um, and that's what we doevery single day. And and this is about the second or third session that she'd have with the couple. And the the thewife is feeling like, okay, we got some direction. And good. I'm in I'm I'm kindof in fear right now. So this feels good to be able to feel this much control about the situation.Yes. Um and the guy is just full of shame andfeeling like I'm a piece of crap and I'm I you know like he's he's been beating himself up for years and years and yearslong before the marriage because he's been just feeling like I'm I'm aperverted dirty piece of scum that doesn't deserve love. Right. Right. be for years and years and yearstelling himself that's who he is. Um, so what happens is he doesn't have any bitof a leg to stand on and because he's betrayed his spouse and like you'reyou're you're a screw-up and a professional, a therapist is thereempowering the wife. I I take that back. I don't like that word empowering.supporting the wife in her fear and in her control. Um, and and this is thepart that as as people are listening right now, they they might be thinking like, "Well, Brandon, it sure sounds likeyou're kind of siding with him." And and and and this is the this is kind of the misconceptionis if So, I watched this therapy happen for a long time.And you were you were trained in it. I was trained in it and I even did it for a little whileand realized really quickly this doesn't work. It doesn't work for the individuals andit doesn't work for the couple and um and it really doesn't work for thepartner who's been betrayed. Um, it leads them to a place ofhopelessness, a place of more fear, a place of more feeling outof control and not feeling empowered and not feeling like they are truly steppinginto their healthy boundaries. Um and soum when I when I see that these models of let's empower you to control yourpartner while he gets weaker so that you get you you can get more strong in yourcontrol. That is so so far from what healthy boundaries actually are in arelationship. So any thoughts Tyler? Yeah Brandon. So I as I'm trying to think of as you were talking what ourlisteners might be hearing and thinking. So I want you to try to distra the distinction a little bit and I've got acouple thoughts on myself is it feels so good to a partner to be told control.That feels good because life is scary. Life has been upside down. They're confused. They don't have confidenceanymore. And yet if they continue in that pattern, what they will get is morefrustration, more fear, uh more burnout, more of the trauma cycle, which whichsounds backwards because that control feels so good, right? Yeah. But Yes. Yes. But you're feelingempathy and validation. So but but you're being you're being validated in resonating in fear. And so, yeah, itfeels good to be connected to that feels good, but then it it creates more andmore fear and more and more control. Right. So you're saying something and as you're talking about this, this is oneof the misconceptions I think first that is always in play when we start talking about boundaries with people and how toset healthy boundaries is that a healthy boundary is never about actuallycontrolling the other person's behavior, which which sounds weird because becausewhat we're doing is we're setting up boundaries around other people's behaviors. But when the boundary is thatwe're controlling somebody else, it actually leaves us in a state of powerlessness because we ultimately can't takesomebody's agency or choice away even if we dictate to them what they should or can do. Right.Well, so so let me play devil's advocate a little bit because I totally understand what you're saying. I agreewith you, but let me play devil's advocate here. So you're telling me that I'm supposed to just like not worryabout what they do and just like I guess I guess there's nothing I can do then. like, "Thanks for advocating for me,Tyler, as the partner. Appreciate it." Right? That's that's that's that's not what I'm saying. What I'msaying is is that the boundary has to be based off of what I will do if and whenthe other person does or doesn't do a certain behavior. It's not the boundary isn't what my partner does. The boundaryis my response to what my partner does. I I get to maintain control. I get tomaintain power over my own choice and my own response. And ultimately, my boundaries have to be set on my valuesystem, not on my partner's behaviors. Okay. So, so slow down a second becauseyou you just nailed one of the one of the biggest things, but it but it this flies over a lot of people's heads. So,there's certain platforms out there that that just speak fear and control andvalidate that over and over again. And what they don't fully get to is is thesetwo truths. One, boundaries are about your value system. So your your healthyboundaries are 100% about you. Totally you. Now, your partner orsomeone else might be doing something around you, which is stepping all over your truth like and and pushing thosetruths, but they're still about you. And and um if if your boundaries are aboutattacking the other person, manipulating the other person, controlling the other person, then you're you're resonating inthat fear and control. When you understand what is in your power, what's not in your power, andyou're in that reality, you also understand ways in which you can practice self-care,get support, um really step into taking care of you. Then you're in a place oflove and acceptance. And when you're in that place of love and acceptance, you're going to have the fortitude to dowhat it takes to be able to to to live those boundaries, to hold firm to thoseboundaries and not not get caught in the whirlwind of the fear cycle. Right. Exactly. So So I'm going to giveyou a couple of examples to kind of distinguish this. And and you're right,like this is this is something that I think has been done in a disservice as we've kind of matured as a profession insome ways is that we've taught the fear cycle and yet some some professionalsand some organizations actually perpetuate the fear cycle without meaning to and and sohang on hang on hang on there's not not without meaning to there is meaning no let's be honest there are platformsand professionals out there who keep the fear cycle going because they get something out of it and they come acrossas as like as as professionals and that they know what they're doing and so they're very very convincing. Like forexample, the therapist that trained me, she knows what she's doing and she has areally really full practice and she and and we get a lot of retreads from herand we have to do trauma work with those clients because the marriage and thefamily system is so screwed up now because of the the the trauma the thetherapy induced trauma that she has inflicted and she's so convincing,Right. And and and you got to be very cautious because that validation feelsso so good. But if it's leading you down a road to disconnection from self, God,and others, then it's not I believe of God and it's not leading you to truth.Right. So I don't want to give them a pass. Tyler. Yeah. You're saying you're saying thatmaybe it's being done whether it's intentional or not, it's being done for their gain rather than for good health.My my experience and and to be honest and part of me wants to just call them out by name right now. Um but some ofthe platforms some some very big platforms out there um are doing itbecause they have a personal axe to grind and they haven't done their ownwork and come to their own peace. And so now they are actuallyum spilling over into other people's lives with their anger, their shame and their control. and it's leading tothem affecting other people's families and and things like that. And this is why I get fired up about it because umit's it's such a it's the irony of it is that whatthey're doing is so gaslighty and manipulative. Yet they talk about gaslighting andmanipulation all the time, right? Um but but it's this it it feels like truth,but it's not. and it's extremely destructive and and so I've tried to kind of subtlybattle it. But but here's the thing, Tyler, now now you're getting me on my soapbox. When we went from the codependency model to the betrayal trauma model,um both these models in in in treating sex addictionand couples, they suck in many ways. and and the the reality. Barbara Stefinswrote her book, Your Sexy Addicted Spouse, which basically said, "No more codependency. We're done with that,right?" Well, and so then it led to this betrayal trauma thing, which is whichhas been betrayal trauma is a real thing. Codependency is a real thing.Both those things are real. Yes. Right. But you know where I'm going with this, right? When we went over to thebetrayal trauma side, what happened? We let go of all the work that you can do on the codependency side of things.But why should I have to do work? Someone betrayed me. I'm a victim, Tyler. Exactly. So, so that's the So, that'swhat you're getting at, Brandon, is is that you go you swing from either taking too much accountability by being thecodependent in the relationship to having no accountability to being the victim in the situation. And the truthis is that there's actually truth in both sides, which is that something has happened to you that shouldn't havehappened, that wasn't fair, that wasn't your fault. And that sucks. And that's hard. And it leads to all sorts of thattrauma response that actually comes through in the betrayal trauma model, right? Andregardless of how and why things happened, the only thing that you have control over, the actual only place toreclaim your life and your freedom is by taking accountability for what you are going to do to respond to those.You just let him off the hook. How dare you? I'm the He's the one that hurt me. I'm the victim here.I know. But but Tyler, this is where you and I we we you and I as as therapistsin this battle really I I get I've gotten many emails that have said, "Howdare you tell me that I've got to take accountability for me? How dare you tell me that I have to do my own healingwork? How dare you tell me that that my boundaries are about me, right? Let'slet's let's get out of the let's get out of the power struggle of right and wrong and and how dare you tell me I have todo this. Let's just let's look at it from the perspective of effectiveness. If I step back and I say, you know what,what kind of life do I want? What kind of future do I want to have for myself? One pathway is going to lead you down aroad that says I'm going to have to wait for my husband to or my partner to get better before I can ever be happy. Theother pathway says, "Dang, this really sucks and this is hard, but I'm going tohave to make some choices about how I want to live my life and how much I want to put up with and what I want to do." And and that one's going to lead thatone's actually the pathway to more freedom and more liberation and to a happier, better life. But I I and here'sthe thing and and I think this is the crux of it is the the clients that I work with who really thrive and they'velistened to the the the platforms and the podcasts about staying the victim,right? They want to take accountability for their own life. They want healingdespite what their partner does. um they they know that they have some pain andsome grief and they're willing to face it and step into it and deal with it and and and get powerful and and say likelook I'm not okay with with the things that the addiction and and things havedone to me like that doesn't work for me but you just kind of nailed it Tyler and I maybe try to say it just a littledifferent. It's not about who wins. It's not about his side or her side. It's,you know, like who's right and who's wrong. That that's that's to be honest with you, that's what gets you caughtup. This is about healing. And both partners need to heal in insome similar ways, in some very different ways. And because you're askedto take accountability for your own life and your own healing, it doesn't mean that we're we're discounting orjustifying the betrayal or the hurt or anything like that. We're not saying that at all. But we are saying it's notabout he's he's the bad one and you're the good one or vice versa. It's not that. This is about moving forward.That's what we're looking for is the moving forward part of it. Um, and you know, I want to give you maybe just a anexample and maybe a personal story to go with this principle here. All right, Brandon. So, um, let's let's justdistinguish healthy boundary versus unhealthy boundary as an example first. Okay. First, the healthy the unhealthyboundary is you will be honest with me and you'll check in with every day with me about everything that you've thoughtyada yada yada. Right. Right. Okay. Okay. That's pretty unhealthy. And andwe've both had many clients like that. Yeah. Well, because because you're looking for a way to find stability andyou're still trying to figure out boundaries yourself and go, okay, well, yeah, I do want something. So, you're feeling unsafe.Yeah. So, the second boundary, which is going to address the same thing, but look at the principle in it is I deserveto be in a relationship where there's honesty. And if there if it comes to myattention that there isn't honesty, then I will do XYZ. I'll take some time andspace for myself. I'll consider where I'm at, and I may be emotionally or physically disconnected for a while until I can feel safe again. Um, that'sit's the same principle we're talking about, but one of them is the control and fear cycle, and one of them isempowering because it allows me to make my choice based off of whether or not this happened. So, here's the here's thestory. This happened multiple times early on in our own recovery where, you know, I had this kind of tendency to towithhold information and to hide things and to maybe not be totally honest, even though I prided myself in being honest,you know, but I'd find ways around it. And it was over stupid stuff, you know, like I'd go and, you know,I'd go and get Chick-fil-A for lunch, but then I'd be ashamed cuz I got Chick-fil-A cuz I was supposed to be eating differently. So then I'd hurryand like throw the wrappings away. And then my wife would say, "Hey, how was your And I'd tell her how my day was and she say, "Well, what did you do for lunch?" "Uh, nothing." You know, thisand that or the other. Like, that's lame. That's way lame. That is was way lame, right? But that's but that's but that'sthe the place my head was in, right? Like that was the the addicted part of my brain that was still trying to cover up and protect myself, shame based, allof that stuff, not knowing who you are, all that stuff. So, so if my wife goes, "Oh, you brokemy boundary. I can't believe you broke my boundary." And then she just nags me about it, but does nothing about it. Does she empower herself?No. You mean if she finds out that you lied about Chick-fil-A? So, so she finds out about it. This is how this is how my wifewould handle it. And I think she's been really good at boundaries over the years. Is that she would say, "Oh, Tyler, this feels gross to me. It feelslike old stuff. It feels like dishonesty. I'm not in for dishonesty. So, I'm going to take a break." Andshe'd leave. And she would leave maybe sometimes for an hour or two. Sometimes it was a day or two. And then at suchpoint, we'd connect and communicate again. And eventually we come back together. And then she'd be able to say, "Hey, like I I'm not going to be able tostay long term in a relationship where there's not honesty." Right? Like, right? That's that's her living according toher values instead of just coming to me back and saying, "Okay, the boundary isyou'll be honest." Like, but but but Tyler, I got to say there's there's and and I think this isone of the the hard parts of healthy boundaries. There's a vulnerability in that for her of you might say, "You knowwhat? like I want to be dishonest. I am a dishonest dude. Like I'm gonna lie about Chick-fil-A. And in that moment,because it's it feels easier for her to be able to say, "No, no, I'm just going to control you to be honest." Because ifI can just control you to be honest, then I I don't risk like us getting divorced. I don't have to make a decision.There's no decision. You just get honest and meet my boundary. But what if you come back and you say, "No, no, I'mgoing to be a dishonest guy." And and so but but for her to have healthy boundaries, she has to have thatstrength within herself to say either you're gonna love me or not love me, butI'm going to show up as me and I'm going to keep my values. This is who I am. I'm going to show upas me and I'm going to show you who I am, not force you to be who I need youto be. Right. Exactly. Which means, this is the hard part, which means that I have to bedoing my own work to be in touch with my values, to be in touch with my identity, to be convicted in knowing who I am sothat I can then make those choices. And that's where trust trust myself. Yeah. And that's that's where it getsmessy because when you've been betrayed for so long, you you get confused like there's there's legitimate reasons whyyou're feeling a lack of confidence and you feel gas lit and because it it's happened to you. And so the reclamationproject, even though it's not fair, has to start from the inside out of getting reconnected to my values and thenlearning that my values are worth protecting and that I get to show up the way that I am as I am and I can eitherinvite that person, my partner into that space of who I am or eventuallyI'll be inviting them out and inviting somebody else in because because I have to stay I have to stay in touch with whoI am first and foremost. most. But and Tyler, this is where I think uh like good therapy and good group workcan can be essential, which is if I've been like manipulated and lied to andgas lit like crazy, it can really start to wear on my gut feels and myintuition, right? And this is where like the bad groups and the bad therapistsreally do a lot of damage because if I go to them in in those moments and say, "Look, like my my partner just likeblatantly lied to my face." And they're like, "Okay, like let's get him. Like let's control him. Like he sucks. He'sthe worst ever." Blah blah blah blah blah. Okay. Now, now I'm being validated and I'm like in that fear cycle, right?Whereas if I go to a group and they say, "Okay, Brandon, like you're powerful. You youare worthy of love and and it's not okay. What they just did is not okaythat your values are being taken from you like this. This doesn't work for you. We can feel it from you. We canfeel your emotions and your emotions are telling you something about you. So, who are you?" And I'd say, "Well, I needhonesty. I need honesty in my relationship. That's who I am." Okay.And your group would say or your therapist would say, "How are you going to how are you going to step up for yourself to fight for honesty?"Yes. Right. And and that's where I would that's where I would say, "Well, I' I'd do this. I'd communicate to my partnerthis way and let them know that didn't work for me. I'd do my self-care this way, you know? I and and then and maybethey'll come around and say, "You know what? Like, I'm going to make that right. Like, I care about you valuing honesty in our relationship." And um butcan you see the difference? I yeah I see the difference 100% isagain it's working from the inside out with your own power and and I love what you just described is that's the benefitof having the right kind of team too is a good group or a good therapist or a good coach or somebody isn't going tojust go on the witch hunt. are going to go on more of the empowerment play of like, okay, how do you stay in contactwith your best values and what do you need to do for yourself to protect those things?Absolutely. Right. And it's okay. Everyone could be frustrated. You know, I think people go into their groups and like, I can'tbelieve this happened again. He's such a d. Okay. Yeah. We're going to we're going to that for a minute. We'll validate that. And because it's true,because the feeling behind it is valid, too. Um, oh, we're going to validate that like crazy, but then we're going to bring itback to your own accountability for yourself. Yeah. And and that's where we're we're nottrying to to to take sides here. We're actually we're actually trying You said something to me years ago, Tyler. Iwas working with a spouse who just could not get out of the fear cycle and wastrying to control her husband and trying to control and trying to control and um and I and I I was kind ofconsulting with you a little bit and you said you know what you need to say to her is that look I am I am fighting foryou like let's let's put him aside. Let's like whatever. He's he's whatever.He's out there. He's But I care about you and I care about your well-being andI am fighting for you and I see that you're caught up in this fear cycle and you're spinning. So, what's some otheroptions? Like, let's help you not feel this suffering anymore. Um, but what'sso hard about that, Tyler, is is what? Well, with number one, it's it does comecome across as not being validating sometimes, and it still is then that same place of not being fair. Right.Right. Um, and so, yeah, but but the truth is is and I've had this happen in my office many times myself is is that I get thatgeez, why are you letting him off the hook or why are you being so it's like it's not about him 100%. It's not abouthim. It's about it's about you and your heart. And and I you can only really saythat unless there's only if there's a relationship of trust that's been established first because otherwise itlands on a a heart and mind that's wounded enough that says, "Oh no, this is just another man trying to beright, you know, trying to assert himself. All the trauma comes up, right? But but let's let's go back allthe way to the beginning of our episode for a second, Brand, and let's look at the reasons why people end up in treatment in the first place is oftenbecause they desperately are looking for a way to find safety, security, and healing. And most of the time, they wantto save their marriage. Yeah. Right. So, so if I want to save my marriage, I need to ask myself what kindof a marriage I want to be in. And I would sub I would submit that most people don't want to be in a marriagewhere they're 100% in control and dominating the marriage. Most people want to be in a marriage where they knowthat they're an equal to their partner and that their partner is choosing in to who they are. And so and so the overallgoal here is to actually get two individuals doing their own individual work to become their best selves and tochoose in with each other because they know each other. They know their valuesand they become equals instead of facilitating a relationship where one person is going to be in a oneownposition the rest of their eternity. Tyler, your your point you're making right now is really important. Um I Iwas talking last week to a therapist and she was saying with couples work we we we might be focusing on the wrong thing.We we focus on attachment on on like meeting bids for connection. And she said realistically long-term healthyrelationship is relationships are actually about really healthy individualself-realization. And so where my wife feels empowered tobe her and and just to to explore who she is and understand herself becauseI'm there as a safe place for her and but you know what? I'm only safe becauseI'm honest about who I am and I I know where I stop and where she begins. Weare individuals and because we're individuals, our intimacy, our love, ourconnection can be so deep and so big because first and foremost, we are whowe are. Right. Exactly. And that's I think that's the beauty of like what a really goodmarriage is is it's two individuals who are doing that kind of work who know where they begin and the other stops andthen who open the doors into a choice to give part of myself to thatrelationship knowing that the other person is going to be doing their work and that we have enough values thatoverlap with each other and that we agree on so that we can have that connection that we're all looking for.Um, and and if we do it one way or the other, it doesn't work. Where it's like two individuals who are just individualsand we're just going to be on our own, that doesn't work because then we're lonely, we're miserable. But if we get too inshed with each other and we don'tsee where the one person begins and the other ends, then it gets too confusing and then we're taking things personally.And that's where like that codependency part of the model comes back in where, you know, where it's really not healthyfor a long-term relationship with one another. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, we could givesome examples of like, you know, let's say my partner wants toum go get a full-time job, right? And we got a bunch of kids at home and I'mworking a full-time job. And I'm like, ah, I don't know. Like, what are we going to do about that? How are we going to take care of all the kids? Okay, butlet's say she's like, and this is totally made up, but let's say that she's like, I feel strongly in my truththat I need to go back to work. Okay. So, but I'm and I feel strongly in mytruth that we need to have a parent home for the kids. Right. Right.So, now now we're at conflict. My value is that that my kids have support andconnection from a parent more often than than than she she wants. Right. So, butthis Tyler is if I just go along with Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to smile and justbe like, "Yeah, go back to work. I'm perfectly fine with it. You're not okay. You're not being authentic.I'm not being boundaried. I'm not being honest. When I say boundaried, I mean authentic, right?Um if she's like, "Okay, I can't go back to work cuz you're telling me that I can't and and like, yeah, you're guilttripping me here to not go back to work, so I'm just going to resent you and resent my life and just keep taking careof the kids all day long." Right. Not not being boundaried. Right. Right. That's not authentic. So, so whatyou're basically saying, Brandon, if I hear you right, is is that you're advocating that it's okay to havehealthy tension and stress between those two sort of values while you while youboth discuss try to how to try to find a a middle ground there. That that's wherethe beauty of a really healthy relationship exists is in that tension is thank you partner for showing up asyou. I'm now showing up as me. So now let's talk about how our both of ourvalues can be met here. What are some options? Um can is there any compromiseand maybe not. So if there's not compromise, what are some other options? What else can we do to try to meet bothof our needs here? And in that moment, if we can communicate that way, we're both going to feel seen and we're bothgoing to feel loved. But if we don't communicate our honest truth in the first place, we're just going to feelcontrolled and resentful toward each other. Right. And I think I think where you'regoing too is is that the way that that honest truth gets conveyed is also important where you know if if she comeshome and says, "No, I I really do I need to go to work. This is what I got to do." And I go, "Well, my truth is thatyou shouldn't." Nope. That's that that's not necessarily going to be conducive to a good conversation. What I what weshould be doing is finding the values in it first and being curious with it and then sharing our My truth is that you shouldn't iscontrolling. Yeah. versus like, man, I value time like our kids having time with with you.Like that's really important to me. Yeah. Um that just telling being honest withyou. That's where I'm at. So like let's talk. Let's work this out. Right. Right.So um Tyler, we could go on and on and on about boundaries and maybe we need to dolike a little minieries about different different nuances of boundaries. Yeah, we should. Um there's internalboundaries, there's external boundaries. Um, but I would just say if you'refeeling that validation in your groups and ju just just reallygut check um your your truth about does this feel like it's leading to a placeof of creating love and and freedom and and moving forward or does this feellike we're graveling in a pit of victim and despair and fear and control? And asconvincing as they may sound, um, really ask yourself that question. Yes. And and that's basically theoverall kind of tone that I think we've had for our meeting today, Brandon, is when I'm looking at healthy boundaries,exactly what you just said, but am I basing them off of true principles? And is the response based in my choicesinstead of the other's behaviors? Are you ending up empowered? Yes.All right, Tyler, you're the man. Um, you guys, we'd love uh maybe we'll get some uh some negative reviews on thisone. I don't know. I hope not. I hope not, too. But we we we would uh hope for some good reviews, you guys. We really love yourfeedback. Um whatever you would like to share with us. And thank you so much for listening. Don't forget to go subscribeto our podcast, Real Talk Recovery or the Therapy Bros Podcast over on iTunes.If people are having questions or even take exception to some of the things we say on the show, we would love to have you come on as a guest. It just makes itbetter for everybody. So, if you're interested in being a guest, go to therapy bros.com and right at the verytop it says ask a question. Click the button. It'll walk you right through. All right. See you guys.[Music][Applause] Hey,hey, hey.[Music][Music] Hey,[Music]hey, hey. [Music]Heat. Heat. [Applause][Music] [Applause][Music]Heat. Heat. [Music][Applause] Heat. Heat.[Music][Applause] Heat. Heat. [Applause][Music]